So anyone who is on the karmī field, He's not jñānī. He's not jñānī or mahātmā. Then who is mahātmā? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After working uselessly for many, many lives like cats and dogs, trees and plants and like that, evolution, when one works for understanding the ultimate goal of life, jñānī . . . so jñānīs also cannot understand immediately that Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal of life. They cannot understand, although it is stated that vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Through the studies of Vedas, what knowledge one should achieve? When one achieves the knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, that is, I mean to say, perfection of Vedic study. But these so-called jñānīs, they are simply bookworms, simply reading Vedas, four Vedas. And they say, "We are concerned with Vedas. We are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa." So . . . just like the yājñika-brāhmaṇa. Yājñika-brāhmaṇa, they were interested with the Vedas, but their wives were interested with Kṛṣṇa. So they got perfection. So in this way, jñānīs . . . karmī are rejected. Karmīs are useless. And jñānīs, when they cultivate knowledge . . . not in one life, because immediately they will not accept that Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal. They're surprised, "How Kṛṣṇa? He was a cowherd boy, playing with the cows and calves. He can be . . .? This is māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādī. They cannot understand. They cannot understand what is the position of Kṛṣṇa, although they are studying Vedas.
So the jñānīs, who actually . . . no, I mean to say, jñānīs, they also immediately come. Therefore they have to try to come to this position of understanding Kṛṣṇa, many, many, births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), not in one birth. They will have to take birth. Their so-called liberation is not possible, because if you have to take birth, then where is your liberation? There is no liberation. Liberation means no more accepting birth in this material world. That is called liberation. So Bhagavad-gītā says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Those who are cultivating knowledge, so there is no mukti, because they have to take birth again. So in this way, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, when he actually comes to the knowledge point, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Then vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). This is mahātmā, when he understands that Kṛṣṇa is the . . . because the perfection of knowledge means to know the ultimate source, athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), from where everything is emanating. But they do not know. The scientists, philosophers, they do not know. They're simply speculating, that's all. Actually, they do not know. But when one knows, then He's perfect. And what is that knowledge? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahatma, that is mahātmā.