Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent, but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that, "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws, I cannot violate it," then he is sober? Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One man is dying. A dhīra knows that he is changing his body; he is not dying. He will get another body. Dhīra, sober. And one who is not sober, he says: "No, life is finished." Or he can imagine he is going to heaven or hell. But a dhīra knows what is going to happen to him. If he was in the material modes of nature, goodness, then he is going to higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. From śāstra we can understand. If he is in passion, then he will stay in this material world. And if he is in ignorance, then he is going to be animal. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. He knows. So he understood what is meant by first-class men? (referring to Justin Murphy)
Amogha: He seemed to understand a lot. I don't know if he could understand completely, but . . .
Prabhupāda: No . . .
Paramahaṁsa: As he walked out the door he said, "Now I have to go back and lead my fourth-class life."