Bhavānanda: (reading) ". . . if someone has desire for material enjoyment or for becoming one with the Supreme, these are both considered material concepts."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Three kinds of happinesses: bhoga, tyāga and bhakti, sevā. Bhoga tyāga sevā. The karmīs, they are after bhoga, sense enjoyment. And the jñānīs, they are after another side of negation of sense enjoyment. When one is fed up with sense enjoyment . . . just like in your country, the young boys, they are practically fed up with the way of sense enjoyment as their fathers and grandfathers had done. So in the name of tyāga, renunciation, they have taken another kind of sense enjoyment—intoxication, unrestricted sex. So this is also another sense enjoyment. Bhoga and tyāga.
Real enjoyment is devotion. There is a very practical example: Just like if you get all of a sudden a certain amount of money, say, one hundred rupees' note lying on the street, if you get . . . or lying here. So if you take it, your conscience will beat, because that does not belong to you; you have picked up. You'll always think, "Oh, I am taking somebody's money. Whose money it was? I'm doing some sinful." In this way, your mind will disturb. So that is the taking. And similarly, if you don't take, if you leave it there, then you'll also be disturbed. You'll think, "Somebody has left this money here. So I did not collect it. Somebody will collect it, and he will take it away. This is not nice." The best thing is that you pick it up and if you deliver to the person who has lost the money or who has left that money. Three things. The one thing is bhoga, if you take yourself. And if you don't take, that is tyāga. And if you pick it up and deliver to the right person, that is devotion.
So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29): "I am the supreme proprietor, mahā-īśvara." Mahā īśvaraṁ parameśvaram. So everyone īśvara, but nobody is mahā-īśvara or parameśvara. Mahā-īśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Mahā-īśvara. Mahā means the great. So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is unknown to the nondevotees. The karmīs also do not know. The karmīs think that the resources of the world, that is given by nature for our enjoyment. This is the modern theory of economic development. Everyone is thinking like that, that by nature we have got the gold mine, so we shall take it and use it and enjoy. This is karmī's view. And . . . but there are many karmīs. Everyone is . . . just like what is that land where there is too much gold, in South America?
Prabhupāda: Brazil. There is too much gold stocked there. And every nation is hankering, how to take it. That will be the effect. What is the struggle in this world? Struggle is the gold is there, the gold mine is there, and everyone is trying to exploit it, "How I can take or my nation can take." Nationality means expanded selfishness. They are very much fond of nationality, but that nationality is also selfishness—by combined effort. Our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi is supposed to be the father of nationality. Not only in our country; in many other countries. But what is that nationality? Mahatma Gandhi wanted that "The Britishers must go away. My countrymen shall enjoy." So this is extended selfishness. In the beginning, I want to enjoy. Then if I . . . I extend my enjoyment family-wise, community-wise or nation-wise, that does not change the quality of selfishness.
People are going on in the name of nationality, big leaders, but from our point of view, that neither as nation or community or person you are the proprietor of things. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of . . . so if you expand your selfishness in the name of nationality—"I possess this land"—we do not approve. We say, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are claiming yourself, as nation or individual or community? That's not proper.
Just like pickpocket and a gang, gangsters, organized rogues, thieves. It does not change the quality. There was some talk, you know, between Alexander the Great and the robber. The robber proved that, "You are a greater robber, that's all. Why you are trying to punish me?" Alexander the Great arrested one robber, and he was going to punish him. So the robber explained that, "Why you are punishing me? You are also a robber. You are going under the name of conqueror, and because I am not as great as you are, therefore you are trying to punish me. So why you are . . .?" So Alexander the Great, he was very, mean, highly advanced in . . . he immediately released him: "Yes. I am also a robber. Why shall I punish you?"