Harikeśa: I was always wondering that if somebody's desire is to commit sinful activities . . .
Prabhupāda: No, in Kali-yuga if you desire, it is not sinful. And act . . .
Harikeśa: If they desire to commit sinful activities, and before they became monkeys, but then they were doing it then. So whilst they're monkeys their desire must change. Or is it forced, that change forced upon them by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: But if desire changes, then where is punishment? If he's repentant, then there is no punishment.
Harikeśa: So before they go back to the spiritual world that desire must change.
Prabhupāda: This is forceful change.
Harikeśa: Forceful change.
Prabhupāda: That is the advantage of Vṛndāvana bhajana.
Harikeśa: That is very good. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. That is punishment. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī (CC Madhya 22.87). Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on: "All right." Here, illicit sex . . . the bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopīs' love," they say. "Gopīs used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from kṛṣṇa-līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on kṛṣṇa-līlā, paint picture. "This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally, anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch, black debauch.