Bhugarbha: He said, what about the opposite, people becoming devotees without knowing anything? He asking...he's saying...
Prabhupada: No, devotee cannot be without knowing anything. A devotee means, a devotee means he knows everything. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijnate sarvam idam vijnatam bhavati. This is Vedic injunction. One who knows the Absolute, he knows everything.
Yogesvara: Srila Prabhupada? That verse, does that mean that one who is neophyte...
Prabhupada: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari, uttama-adhikari. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikari. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jnani, he does not know. Because he does not know Krsna. The so-called jnani, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jnani. His jnana, his knowledge, is lacking. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said,
- bahunam janmanam ante
- jnanavan mam prapadyate
- vasudevah sarvam iti
- sa mahatma sudurlabhah
- (BG 7.19)
If one jnani is impersonalist, he's not jnani. He is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. He does not know. Therefore it will take many, many births to come to the understanding of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore he's not jnani, he's claiming to be jnani. Such jnani will take many hundreds of births to come to the position of real jnani. Find out this bahunam janmanam ante (BG 7.19). So-called jnani, after many, many births, when he understands Krsna and surrenders to Him, then he's jnani. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That kind of jnani is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajnani. Yes. Because he does not know Krsna, the person. There is another verse in the Srimad-Bhagavatam: aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah (SB 10.2.32). Aruhya krcchrena, by the jnana process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of param padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhah, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyasis in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work. They give up this world, brahma satyam jagan mithya. If jagat is mithya, is false, why does he come for social work? Just like these people going to the moon planet, but because they do not get any shelter, they take some sand and come back again. So what is the use of going there and spending so much money and come back with little sand, and satisfied, "Now we have studied"? Because they have no shelter. So the jnanis, they have no shelter. Yes. They may go very high in the sky, but because they have no shelter they come back again. Punar musaka bhava, again become a mouse. So that is not jnani, that is ajnani. Jnani is described here, mad-bhaktim labhate param (BG 18.54). Brahma-bhuta (SB 4.30.20) is jnani, aham brahmasmi. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma, "I have nothing to do with material world." Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati (BG 18.54), there is no lamentation, there is no hankering. When he has attained that stage, brahma-bhuta stage, reality, then he is entrance in the bhakti. Otherwise a neophyte.