Prabhupāda: He's Ph.D. He has recently joined us. He likes this movement.
George Gullen: I'm sure it satisfies a deep need. I'm sure that's true.
Prabhupāda: No, it is the need of the human society. There is no alternative. In the Vedic mantra it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must accept this. Otherwise, his human life is spoiled. If you simply trained up to live like an animal, then it is a great harm to the human society.
George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I . . .
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is . . . suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious; we're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied that, "I have got this body. Let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. (aside) Find out this verse.
Hari-śauri:
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."
George Gullen: These are difficult words to understand, but I appreciate them.
Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra . . . dhīras tatra. Dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?
Hari-śauri: Sober.
Satsvarūpa: Learned.
Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.
George Gullen: My father used to speak of the Oversoul, that I think had some similarity to these words that we just read, that the soul that is above . . .
Prabhupāda: We call Supersoul, that is God. The idea is in Christianity also, "Holy Ghost" like that. Supersoul and the ordinary soul. We living entities, we are ordinary souls, and God in His all-pervading feature, He is Supersoul. (aside:) Find out this verse: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.