Prabhupāda: This is knowledge. Just like a child sometimes takes something important. He'll not spare it. So we have to flatter, "Oh, you are so nice, please take these lozenges and give me that paper. Hundred rupees, it is nothing. It is paper." (laughter) And he will, "Oh, yes, take. That's nice. That two-paise lozenges is very nice. It is sweet." So we have to do like that. Why? Because he'll go to hell taking Kṛṣṇa's money. So some way or other, take some money from him and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Bob: And then he may not go to hell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell. Because a farthing spent for Kṛṣṇa it will be accounted, "Oh, this man has given a farthing." This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means doing pious activities without knowledge. So we give everyone chance to act very piously without his knowledge. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṟṇāṁ gṛhīṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Dīna-cetasām. They're very poor in their thought. Therefore the saintly persons work(?) just to enlighten him little, to give him chance to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is saintly person's study.
Bob: That is what?
Prabhupāda: But if he takes money from other and utilizes for his sense gratification, then he goes to hell. Then it is finished. Then he's a cheater. Actually, he is criminal. You cannot take money, a farthing from anyone. (break)
Bob: I think of people I know who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God.
Bob: Oh, yeah. Are not very, are just slightly God conscious, but still these people are honest to the extent they don't take, they don't take from other people at all and they try to be honest with other people. Will these...
Prabhupāda: But he does not take from other people, but he takes from God.
Bob: So these people are half good?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: These people then are half good?
Prabhupāda: Not half God.
Bob: Half good, good.
Prabhupāda: Not good. If he does not know this principle, that God is the proprietor... Others' thing, what do you mean by others' thing?
Bob: Like, people I'm thinking of, they're poor people who need money and food, but...
Prabhupāda: Everyone needs money. Everyone needs. Who is not poor? Anyone find out. So many gentlemen sitting here. Who is not in need of food and money? You are also in need of money. So what do you distinguish poor and rich? Everyone needs. If that is your definition, if one needs money and food, everyone needs money and food. So everyone is poor.
Bob: So, but, well, I was thinking of terms of just people who are relatively poor.
Prabhupāda: No relatively. Relatively maybe. You are more hungry than me. But that does not mean you are not hungry or I am not hungry. I don't feel hungry now, that does not mean I do not feel hungry or I am not hungry. For the time being you may not be hungry. Tomorrow you'll be hungry.
Bob: What I feel is that somehow these people that... Everybody around them may be stealing, but they still stand up and don't steal. That these people somehow deserve something good to happen to them.
Prabhupāda: But the man who is thinking that he's not stealing, he's also a thief. Because he does not know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever he's accepting, he's stealing.
Bob: Is he less of a thief?
Prabhupāda: You may not know that I am the proprietor of this wrapper, but if you take it away, are you not steal?
Bob: But, maybe it isn't... If I know it is yours and I take it I'm a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is and I just think it may be nobody's and I take it.
Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?
Bob: It is stealing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that these are all government property. He takes away. That is stealing. And when he's caught he's arrested and he's punished. So similarly, whatever you are collecting... Suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?
Bob: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?