Bob: Um, let me ask you about something else. Then maybe I'll come back to this, because I'm still . . . I find that I think of myself too much, and this way you can't think of God so much. One can't think of God. I think of myself in too many places. How can I forget about myself so I can concentrate on other more important things?
Prabhupāda: As they have done.
Bob: (laughs) You are saying to me that my path . . . I think what you're saying is my path to purity is to become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Do you hesitate?
Bob: Well, I . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very difficult to become a devotee?
Bob: For myself . . . it is . . . I don't feel so much the desire. I have . . . first the devotees tell me that they have given up material life. These four regulative principles, they have explained to me, means giving up material life, and that I see. And in place of this they have . . .
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by material life? I am sitting on this bed. Is it material or spiritual?
Bob: Material.
Prabhupāda: Then how we give up material life?
Bob: I think how I interpreted it was a desire for material gains.
Prabhupāda: That is material life.
Bob: You're working towards material gains, not giving up all material.
Prabhupāda: Material life means when you desire to gratify your senses. That is material life. And when you desire to serve God, that is spiritual life. That is the difference between material life and spiritual life. Now we are trying to serve our senses. Instead of serving the senses, when we serve God, that is spiritual life. What is the difference between our activities and others' activities? We are using everything: table, chair, bed, this tape recorder, typewriter. So what is the difference? The difference is that we are using everything for Kṛṣṇa.
Bob: Ah . . . this I see. The devotees have said that the sensual pleasures that they have given up are replaced with spiritual kinds of pleasures. But see, I haven't . . .
Prabhupāda: Spiritual kinds of pleasure means when you desire to please Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual pleasure. Just like example, a mother is more pleased by feeding her son. (break)
Bob: Spiritual pleasure, then, is in pleasing God.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual pleasure means pleasure of Kṛṣṇa.
Bob: Pleasing of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And material pleasure means pleasure of senses. That's all. This is the difference. When you try simply to please Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual pleasure.
Bob: I had viewed this as . . . my thought of pleasing God was to do . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't manufacture your ways of pleasing God. Don't manufacture. Suppose if I want to please you, then I shall ask you, "How can I serve you?" Not that I manufacture service. That is not pleasing you. Suppose if I want a glass of water.
And if you manufacture that, "Swāmījī will be more pleased if I give a glass of milk, hot milk," that will not please me. If you want to please me, then you should ask me, "How can I please you?" And what I order, if you do that, that will please me.