Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: . . . where people learn. That has been a difficulty here. There's been no real teachers until . . .
Prabhupāda: No, everyone gives his own opinion. Everyone will say . . . he'll not dare to say that he's speaking right, scientifically. He'll say: "It is my opinion." To avoid any difficulty, he'll say: "In my opinion it is this." I think he's speaking of that, (that) there are so many people, and they have got so many opinions.
Śyāmasundara: How do we know, then, what is the real fact?
Prabhupāda: We have to understand it from a real man who knows it. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ.
(aside) Find out that. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā.
So we have to approach the real person who has seen. Then you'll get the right goal of life.
Pradyumna:
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."
Prabhupāda: So we have to approach a person who has seen the truth. It is not difficult. Just like if you are suffering from some disease, you have to go to a doctor who knows how to treat. It is same thing, like that.
Śyāmasundara: How do we know he's a good doctor or not? By his credential, or . . .?
Prabhupāda: No. That also . . . therefore it is called sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Three things there are for knowledge: sādhu, saintly person; śāstra, scripture; and guru. So one statement we have to corroborate with other statement. If you accept somebody as guru, then you have to corroborate it whether śāstra says that he is guru or any saintly person says that he is guru. This is the way. Similarly, when you take a scripture, you have to know it from the spiritual master whether that is actually scripture, whether it is accepted by the saintly person, sādhu. Similarly sādhu also, whether guru says: "Yes, he is sādhu," whether śāstra says: "Yes, he is sādhu." There are three things, sādhu-śāstra-guru. So to accept one, you have to take the opinion of the other two. Then you'll get the right way.
Just like who is a guru? That is stated in the śāstras. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham, śāstra says. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12): "One must approach a guru." Then the same question comes, "Who is guru?" That is also stated, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He's well versed in Vedas, knowledge of Vedas, and fully Kṛṣṇa conscious." He is guru. Just like how do you know that, "Here is a medical practitioner"? Before going for treatment, you find out. How do you find out?
Śyāmasundara: Some friend, perhaps.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have to take information. Similarly, guru, according to śāstra, who is guru, he must be confirmed by sādhu, saintly person, by śāstra. Then he's guru. Sadhu-śāstra, guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.
Haṁsadūta: What's the difference between a sādhu and a guru? Sadhu means authorities like Vyāsa?
Prabhupāda: Guru . . . he must be a sādhu.
Haṁsadūta: It means the previous ācāryas.
Prabhupāda: A sādhu means:
- titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ
- suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhutānām
- ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ
- sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ
- (SB 3.25.21)
Everything, there is definition, who is sādhu, who is guru . . .
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: . . . what is śāstra. Everything is there. You have to know it. What is avatāra. That is my business, how to know. But there is. Everything's there. What . . . everyone can know it. Sādhavaḥ. Sādhu. Sum and substance of sādhu means devotee. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). "He's sādhu."
Who? Ananya-bhāk: "Without any diversion of attention, he's completely engaged in My devotional service. Even if he has got some minor defects, still, because he is completely surrendered and engaged in My service, he's sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ. So this is the test of sādhu. Sādhu means he must be a devotee. Sādhu does not mean having saffron color and long beard and doing all nonsense. No. Sādhu means . . . first test is that he is unflinching, without any deviation. Api cet sudurā . . . bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Ananya-bhāk means he does not know anything except the service of the Lord. That is the qualification of sādhu.
So similarly, in other places also, the definition of sādhu is there. Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements, and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful. The same man who is torturing him, torturing him, he is trying to convince him about Kṛṣṇa. That means very merciful. He's not rejecting. Although he's torturing him, but he's trying to convince him, Kṛṣṇa.