Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes, Vaiṣṇava is . . . if one man is real Vaiṣṇava. Just like see Jesus Christ. It is said that he took everyone's sin, and he was crucified. So how much merciful he is, just see. But these rascals have taken that, "Let us go on committing sinful activities, and Christ has taken contract; he will suffer, and we shall do this." Such rascals. You see. They say that, "Our Christian religion is so good that even we commit sinful acts, Christ will suffer, we shall not suffer." Just see.
Bali-mardana: I was reading yesterday in the Newsweek that now the priests, they are dating with women and having sex.
Prabhupāda: They must have, because they have no spiritual knowledge. Anyone who is not spiritually advanced, he cannot avoid the sex.
Hṛdayānanda: You said yesterday adānta-gobhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big yogīs, they fell victim to sex. Viśvāmitra Muni, many other instances. Saubhari, Saubhari Muni. He was meditating within the water, and some fish just, what is called, licked up his gender.
Bali-mardana: Copulating.
Prabhupāda: Copulating? Yes.
Devotee: Licked him.
Prabhupāda: And he felt sex desire. Just see. That itching sensation. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). Kaṇḍūyanam means itching. It is actually it is itching. The śāstra says it is kaṇḍūyanam. Kaṇḍūyanam means itching, the scratching, the itching. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham.
Devotee: (referring to Svarūpa Dāmodara) Our scientist.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Only one scientist.
Prabhupāda: (greeting) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Feeling all right?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. After . . . (indistinct)
(pause)
(break) Yes. I wanted to know the . . . so there are five kinds of air, material air, and the spirit soul is floating in the five kinds of air. I want to know these different functional activities of the five kinds of air.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that also we admit. There are five kinds of air: prāṇa, apāna, like that. There are . . . by the yogīs, by breathing exercise, they control the five kinds of air. So that also we admit.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, the scientists, they do not understand the five kinds of air.
Prabhupāda: They do not know so many things. What they will understand? Because they do not understand, therefore it has to be rejected. They are fools. What do they understand? Superfluous. Simply they see something outward. Just like they see the tree, but what do they understand about the seed? What do they understand? The tree is coming from the seed, but what do they understand about the seed? They see the tree, that's all, like a child sees the tree, and "Oh, it is a big tree." But intelligent man sees the seed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also see that the original seed, the embryo, is . . . remains dormant.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. How it is made? That they do not know, how subtle things are being done . . .
(aside) We can go this way.
That is their ignorance. They do not know subtle things. Simply gross manifestation attracts their attention. That's all. Jaḍa-dṛṣṭi. It is called jaḍa-dṛṣṭi, material vision. No sukhā-dṛṣṭi. Every, every field, they have no finer introspection. Simply gross. They deal with gross things. Just like the same example: Here is a tree, but it is a fact, this tree has grown from a small seed. So what do they know about the seed, how it is manufactured, how it has got the potency of bringing out such a big tree? Not only that, in that seed there will be millions of fruits, and each fruit there will be millions of seeds, and each seed contains again millions of trees. Where is your science? Where is that potency?
Devotee: Is a seed conscious, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Everything is conscious. First of all, even gross manifestation we cannot understand, what to speak of consciousness. That is different thing. According to our philosophy, everything has got consciousness. Just like this tree has got consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists also say that they have consciousness.
Prabhupāda: But this tree's consciousness and my consciousness is different. My consciousness is developed. If you pinch on my body, my consciousness will be immediately protesting. But you cut, it will not protest. So consciousness is different. So there is nothing which has no consciousness, but it is a question of degree. It is a question of degree. The more the consciousness is covered, it is called material. The more the consciousness is developed, it is called spiritual. That is the difference between matter and spirit.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that verse in the Gītā, that nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇuḥ (BG 2.24).
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hṛdayānanda: That verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, that living beings are everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sarva-ga. Acalo 'yaṁ sthāṇur sarva-gaḥ. Nitya. Nityaḥ sthāṇur acalo 'yam (BG 2.24). That is described. The seeds are everywhere. Just like they are trying to come out from this. You will find sometimes fracture, grass is coming. As soon as there is opportunity, they want to express the consciousness. Those who fall down . . . kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). They come with waters, rainwater, and falls down on the ground and become grass. Then gradually, evolution.
Hṛdayānanda: That's terrible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino . . . (BG 8.16). How subtle laws are working, what do they know, the scientists? Therefore their so-called knowledge is māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15): actual knowledge is taken away by māyā. And they are thinking, "I am very learned man, scholar." But actual knowledge is taken. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuri-bhāva. They won't accept God. Therefore they are all fools. In spite of all these degrees, they are all fools. Therefore they cannot explain everything very nicely. "In future we shall see."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that "We are beginning to learn more and more . . ."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means that we are fool. While you are in the process of learning, that means you are fool. Say directly that, "We are fool." That is gentlemanliness. You do not know; still, you poses, "I am . . . we are scholar, we are scientist. Give us Nobel Prize." You see? This is going on. We don't want Nobel Prize. We are giving the topmost knowledge. We don't hanker after Nobel Prize. But they give false knowledge and hanker after Nobel Prize. Just see.
Their real aim is how to get the Nobel Prize by cheating. That is their real aim. How an educated man, learned man, will cheat? So therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that, "This modern human society—or always—it is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Somebody is cheating and somebody's cheated, and they have combined together to make a so-called civilization.