Guru-kṛpā: "The living entities in this conditional world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: So with this instrument he's manipulating this machine, as exactly the pilot, with so many electronics, machine, he's working the flying of the plane. Where is the difficulty to understand? And this is, body is a machine. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhū.... Bhrāmayan, wandering. The aeroplane is wandering. This machine is wandering. It is also going. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Sometimes up, sometimes down. Huh? Find out this. (devotees look for verse) Same aeroplane, going up and down. Two wings, this hand, like this.
- ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
- madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
- adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
- (BG 14.18)
"Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds."
Prabhupāda: So same thing: if the pilot is not expert, then goes down to the lowest, finished. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. If the pilot is third class, instead of going up, he goes down, and everything is spoiled. So everything on the pilot. The machine is not important. The machine can go up if the pilot knows how to do it. And the machine can go down. Actually, it is happening. This landing point is very dangerous. If the pilot cannot handle very nicely, immediately smashed. The crash takes place while going up and coming down, generally. That is due to mismanagement of the pilot. When in the sky it is regular speed and balance, it is going nicely. There is no crisis. All crises take place while coming down and going up. Leaving the land and coming the land. I have seen sometimes, they clap as soon as they.... (Prabhupāda claps his hands. Devotees laugh) "The danger is over." So ūrdhvam and adhaḥ. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. So in this way, you have to place the subject matter, that the living entity, the soul, is the important thing within this body. Because he's struggling. On account of his ignorance, he's struggling. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is his position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned earlier that not only we have to find out who is the speaker, but who is the proper person to hear the subject matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If somebody is interested to know what is the important thing, then he can understand this. And if he's animal, simply eating, sleeping, mating, what he will understand? Animal is not interested to know how the world is going on. He gets his food and sex. That's all. That is animal propensity. And as soon as he comes to the human platform, then inquisitive. "Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya." Sanātana Gosvāmī.... He's not interested, "How I shall develop my economic position?" He has left already a very high-grade economic position. He's not interested. He's interested "Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. Actually what is my position? Why I am suffering in this material atmosphere?" That is human life.
Guru-kṛpā: Arjuna asks also many questions.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata. Kārpaṇya-doṣa (BG 2.7). "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relatives—my grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturally—what could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: General mass of people think that life is finished with this body. They're unaware of up or down...
Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential.