Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "You fully surrender. I give you full protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). He will give you full intelligence. (break) ...these facts in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be our great success when the scientific world will admit. Let them admit simply. Then our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will (be) great success. You simply admit, "Yes, there is God and mystic power." Then our movement is very successful. And that's a fact. Simply talking like a nonsense amongst the nonsense, that is not a very great credit. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading other blind man. What is the value of such? They are all blind. And so long one remains blind and rascal, he does not accept God. This is the test. As soon as we see that he does not accept God, he is blind, rascal, fool, whatever you can call. Take it for granted, however, whatever he may be. He's a rascal. On this principle we can challenge so many big, big chemist, philosopher, whoever comes to us. We say, "You are demon." The other chemist came, you brought him, that Indian?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm. Chouri.(?)
Prabhupāda: Chouri. (laughing) So I told him that "You are a demon." But he was not angry. He admitted. And all his argument was refuted. Perhaps you remember.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment." He was saying like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa will give you facility? If you are against Kṛṣṇa and you want the credit without Kṛṣṇa, that's not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Kṛṣṇa, we believe that "There is Kṛṣṇa. When I shall talk with him, Kṛṣṇa will give give me intelligence." This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child, he can challenge a very big man because he knows, "My father is there." He is catching the hand of the father, and he's sure that "Nobody can do anything to me."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I want to make sure the meaning of Tad apy aphalatāṁ jātaṁ. Teṣām ātmābhimāninām.
Prabhupāda: Tad apy aphalatāṁ jātaṁ. Teṣām ātmābhimān..., bālakānām anāśritya govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. "The human form of life becomes spoiled for those..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Who do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply he dies like animal." That's all. Just like the cats and dogs, they also take birth. They eat, sleep, and beget children, and die. The human life is like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jāta means the species?
Prabhupāda: Jāta. Jāta means born. Aphalatāṁ jātam. Jāta means it becomes futile. Futile. The human form of life becomes futile if he does not accept govinda-caraṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. If he's not convinced that "I worship the original Personality of Godhead Govinda," then he's spoiled. That's all. His life is spoiled.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ātmābhimāninām means the...
Prabhupāda: Ātmā, dehātmā-māninām. "I am this body."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So those self-centered...
Prabhupāda: Self? They have no information of the self. These rascals, they think, "I am this body." Ātmā means body, ātmā means self, ātmā means mind. So this ātmābhimānī means bodily concept of life. Bālaka. Bālaka means a fool, child, bālaka. Ātmābhimānināṁ bālakānām. Those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are like children, fools, or animals.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I plan to expound the principle of transmigration through this verse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Transmigration. Bhramadbhiḥ. Bhramadbhiḥ means transmigration, wandering from one body to another. Just like I am here. I have got my this body, a dress, covering. And when I go India, this is not required. So they are taking that the body has evolved like that. But no. Here, under certain condition, I accept this dress. In another place, under certain condition, I accept another dress. So I am the important, not this dress. But these rascals are studying the dress only. That is called ātmābhimānām, considering of the dress, body. Bālakānām.