Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's the verse in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that what is night for the materialistic man is the time of awakening for the introspective sage.
Guru-gaurāṅga: These scientists, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that their research is neutral, and it is not their fault that the use of their discoveries is detrimental. Like that man yesterday, he said, "It is not my bomb."
Prabhupāda: Oh, then whose bomb?
Yogeśvara: Well, their point is, like, for example, Albert Einstein. His idea wasn't to create the atomic bomb, but with his theories, the government agencies had men produce the bomb. So they're saying: "Why should you blame us for all the chaos and havoc? All we're doing is simply researching nature."
Prabhupāda: (referring to statue) This is child?
Satsvarūpa: He has got animal hoofs, though.
Satsvarūpa: From the waist down, he's an animal. He has hoofs instead of feet.
Yogeśvara: What are they called?
Yogeśvara: Centaur, centaur.
Satsvarūpa: That's in the Greek . . . (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . if they give up the four sinful activities, then they might be able to understand the Vedic philosophy. So does this imply . . .?
Prabhupāda: Not Vedic philosophy. They will understand God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So does this mean that by their activities that they're engaging in now, their incentive is that they want to enjoy these four sinful activities . . .? And that really they're not looking for truth? That's . . .
Prabhupāda: They have no inquiry for truth. Animal life. As soon as there will be inquiry for the truth, that is human life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They will naturally perform some tapasya?
Prabhupāda: Yes, then other things will follow. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. They do not inquire. That means animal life. As soon as there is inquiry, jijñāsu, jñānī jijñāsu . . . they're not jijñāsu even, neither jñānī. (pause) The path must be very old. The trees are very aged. (pause) (break)
Satsvarūpa: . . . yesterday said, when you said that one must be pure before he approaches God, they said: "That's spiritual pride," they said: "That is not good to say first we have to be pure. Like egoism," they said.
Prabhupāda: They'll tolerate material egoism, "We are doing this humanitarian service." That they . . . and spiritual egoism he'll not. That I replied, that this is real egoism, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And I'm "Ahaṁ dog-asmi." (laughter) That is not very good pride. (break) Why not make one world? That I said to that man. Why do they not do that? Everything belongs to God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Vedic times also, just a few thousand years ago, there was one monarch also, one king.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they were subordinate to him.
Guru-gaurāṅga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). One is trying to associate with the goodness, brahmiṇ, brahmiṇ qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one person asked the other day that, "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Kṛṣṇa or we can remain under the control of the external energy."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And his question was that are those in the mode of passion and ignorance, do they have any choice?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government, but it is your choice whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. That is your choice. Government does not say that, "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to prison or to the university. You cannot say . . . one man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house, immediately.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Choice to . . .?
Prabhupāda: To steal.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Steal.
Prabhupāda: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, it will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifest. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥu (BG 13.22). So in the, in the . . . ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer.