Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
We test like that. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, narādhama. That is our general definition. How we do it? Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Mūḍhas. So therefore it is required that people should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is all right. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Everyone, time, will believe.(?) So we can take up, we can immediately begin, but if local people cooperate, then we can do the rest. That is . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: There is no question of cooperation. We fully believe what you say. Cooperation means by . . .
Prabhupāda: Cooperation means what we say they must do.
Mr. Dwivedi: We have firm faith in what you say.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then we can take any . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: Cooperation can come even from a person who may not understand a whit.
Prabhupāda: No, cooperation means that.
Mr. Dwivedi: In our own small way we try to live to what Your Grace has been telling me. We live actually in life.
Prabhupāda: Don't try to . . . That is cooperation. Don't try to amend the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. That is cooperation. The rascals, they amend. And what can I do? I can use this strong word. This is used in the Bhagavad-gītā: mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ. So it is not my manufacture. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why we should amend Kṛṣṇa's word? Surrender and do. That is cooperation. All these svāmīs who . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: Are we even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was? If we are even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was, we . . .
Prabhupāda: No, you are. You are. Kṛṣṇa says. You are sample of Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Dwivedi: We are sample of Kṛṣṇa. Correct.
Prabhupāda: But . . . So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Its duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately. That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. Hmm? In politics, nonviolence? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this INA it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.
Mr. Dwivedi: I had the privilege of being fairly nearly with Subhas Bapu. The last I met him was just some time before his going, when he wrote a message . . .
Prabhupāda: He was . . . He was for . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: . . . for my paper for all India. I do not know whether it was Subhas Bapu's influence or I do not know my own karmas, but at least in Gandhi's . . .
Prabhupāda: That it is a fact.
Mr. Dwivedi: I could not appreciate him.
Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. When Subhas Bapu . . . He was always pleading, "Gandhijī, these people are not to go by your nonviolence, and we have to take to violence." Gandhi would say, "I will not fight. Sva-rājya." Then Subhas went outside India. Somehow or other, he organized. And when the Britishers saw that "The military force, they are joining national movement. Now it is no hope . . ." Because the Gurkhas and the Sikhs and other military races, they were cooperating with the Britishers; therefore they were maintaining. They could not bring soldiers from their country. And when they saw, "The soldiers are joining Subhas," they left. "Now independence." This is a fact. Otherwise, Gandhi he was patting, "Mahatmajī, you are such a great man."
Mr. Dwivedi: In the . . . I used to meet in northly country in the late 20's, 1929 and '30, when Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru founded League for Independence of India. Subhas Bapu was the second.
Prabhupāda: I was present in that meeting.
Mr. Dwivedi: So I was in the working committee with Srinivas Iyengar from the South and this Ganesh Shankar Vidyapati from Kanpur. Subhas Bapu used to be very plain. When we used to put certain question to Jawaharlal, then he would say, "If you don't believe in Gandhi's ahiṁsā, you get out. Who will follow him, eh? Where shall I get the crowd to hear me?"
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."
Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question . . . Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa; some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya; some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading . . . But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there. There is no . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: The buildings . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?
Mr. Dwivedi: Climate is fine, particularly of the place where we have our headquarters. Very pleasant, in summer especially, very pleasant. We don't have bad nights.
Prabhupāda: Why not go? If we go there, eh? In this time?
Mr. Dwivedi: The . . . In the way it might be not so pleasant, but when we have reached there it is quite pleasant because we are at a height of about 1684 feet, then surrounded by forest. So therefore we don't have this heat wave in that area. And especially when we are at our college building we can telephone not to . . .
Prabhupāda: So why not go?
Mr. Dwivedi: . . . cover with the blanket.
Prabhupāda: So if we go and stay there and organize . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: I mean, these days it's quite pleasant at our headquarters, but Gwalior is very hot.
Prabhupāda: No . . .
Mr. Dwivedi: Mosquitoes also.
Prabhupāda: So we shall go there.