Prabhupāda: Two birds, two birds. Yes. Two birds. Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said. Anumantā upadraṣṭā. One kṣetra-jña is anumantā and upadraṣṭā; another kṣetra-jña is not anumantā. He's simply enjoying.
Dr. Patel: But that is . . . dvāv imau puruṣau loke kṣaraś cākṣara . . . kṣaraḥ sarvāṇi bhūtāni kūṭa-stho 'kṣara ucyate (BG 15.16). Uttamaḥ puruṣas tv anyaḥ paramātmety . . . (BG 15.17) (break) . . . uttama puruṣa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣara and akṣara means conditioned soul and liberated soul. Those who are in the Vaikuṇṭha world, spiritual world, they are all liberated souls. And those who are within this material world, they are conditioned souls. So . . .
Dr. Patel: Shall I read again.
Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish. So this should be clearly understood, that in this body both the Paramātmā and jīvātmā living.
Dr. Patel: Stay together, live together.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the Māyāvādīs, they says there is no jīvātmā. The same thing, Paramātmā. That is not.
Dr. Patel: Those two birds are living on the same tree.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That is the difference. Paramātmā and jīvātmā, what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I . . . this is very practical, that I am the jīvātmā. I am living in this body. I know the business of my body, pains and pleasures, but I do not know what is the pains and pleasures of your body. You also do not know what is the pains and pleasures . . . therefore we are individual. But Paramātmā, because He's there, He knows what is your pains and pleasure, what is my pains and pleasure. Not only you, but all living entities. That is Paramātmā. So those who are falsely claiming that, "I am Paramātmā," this is the test, "Whether you are cognizant of everything?"
Dr. Patel: Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot falsely claim that "I am Paramātmā," or "I am God." Whether you have got this all-pervading knowledge? This is the only test to the pretenders that he is God, he is Paramātmā.