Last night, somebody was discussing with me saguṇa and nirguṇa. Saguṇa means, according to their version, or a standard version, saguṇa means the material quality. They worship saguṇa-rūpa. Saguṇa means forms of this material world. Sādhakānāṁ hitārthāya brāhmaṇa-rūpa-kalpanaḥ.(?) Kalpanaḥ. According to Māyāvādī school, the Absolute Truth is imperson. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām, adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). Say, for meditation, it is very difficult to meditate on impersonal feature. Therefore, they artificially think like that: "I am the whole. I am moving the stars, I am moving the moon." Or some color display is taking place. Artificially. This meditation is artificial. Therefore, they do not get any result. Simply waste time, and they remain the number one debauch, as they are. So this kind of meditation... Because they will not put any form... "The Brahman is impersonal." So how they can think of any form? It is very difficult to adjust. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām (BG 12.5). They want to meditate upon impersonal Brahman, but it is very troublesome. Because Brahman is not impersonal, but force, they want to make Brahman impersonal.
So in order to mitigate this troublesome position, some of their ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, has said that "You imagine a form. There is no real form, but you imagine some form." And he has recommended five forms. The first form is Durgā, Śakti. The second form is Sūrya, the sun, sun worshiper. And the third form is Gaṇeśa, and the fourth form is Śiva. And the fifth form is Viṣṇu. Of course, these are the different stages of spiritual development. Durgā... Durgā means the material power, energy. So when a person is in the lowest stage of material existence, he realizes some power. That's a fact. The scientists also, they realize some power, there is some power in the material world. They go on searching after what is the ultimate power, but they cannot find it out. That is not possible. But they accept that there is some power, nature's power. So that is the stage of śakta stage, Durgā worship. Then... Power... Just like modern scientists, they also have gone to the power of the sun. That power, another power. That power is sun, and that is called saura, worshiping the sun. Just like there is a Parsi community in India. Fire worship is recommended in the Vedas. So that powerful sun, sun-god, they worship the sun. That is the stage of saura, saura stage. And then, next is the power vox populi, the power of the votes. That is the stage of Gaṇapati. Gaṇa... Gaṇa means the number of people. Just like in nationalism they are counting upon the power. In this way, they realize some sort of power, I mean to say, moving force or the soul. That is the stage of... They say, śivo 'ham. Śivo 'ham. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is the stage of śaiva. And when they expand that, that "This power, this spiritual power, soul, is all over, all-pervading, impersonal Brahman," that is... They, sometimes they accept Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means all-pervading. But their realization of Viṣṇu is impersonal.