Prabhupāda: Gurkhas and Sikhs.
Devotee (3): Of Nepal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know that? (break)
(in car)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Whatever the leaders do, then the other people will follow.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . .India also there is such tendency towards sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. India . . . Why do you speak India or America? That is the tendency everywhere.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because when the British came, the Indians took up so many of the habits of the British.
Prabhupāda: No, no, before that also. But that habit was controlled by Indian culture.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I see.
Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea." But here at the present moment there is no such idea. Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is happening, actually, by this movement.
Prabhupāda: We are not for material opulence. We are for ideal character. That is wanted. But they have no idea that there can be a class of men, ideal character, ideal knowledge, ideal advancement. They have no such idea. Simply bring money and enjoy sense gratification, that's all. In that way they will never be happy. But foolish person, they have no leader to give them ideal, and neither by nature they are not inclined. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Who is giving them idea that "Come to God, and you will be satisfied"? Nobody is giving. They are simply durāśayā. They are thinking by material opulence they will be happy. This is their ignorance. Therefore so much struggle all over the world. It is not the question of India or America. It is the material way of life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They put forward the argument sometimes, though, that it is very natural to try to enjoy. "Everyone is doing it, so why should we fight the nature?" People say like this.
Prabhupāda: You enjoy, but where is your enjoyment? Why don't you see to this? Therefore this is not the way of enjoyment. We say there is enjoyment. Just like a diseased person, he wants enjoyment. How he can enjoy? He is diseased person. It is not possible for the diseased person to enjoy. First of all he has to cure his disease. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). First of all, your existence should be purified by tapasya. Be cured of the disease; then you'll enjoy. Enjoyment is your right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is your right, but you are now diseased. Why don't you see to this? You are dying, therefore. You are becoming old, therefore. This is your disease. That they will not admit. In the diseased condition they want to enjoy. And then tuberculosis. If a tuberculosis person, suffering from tuberculosis, he wants to enjoy sex, that means he will die very soon. His life is finished, but he wants that, that "I shall suffer from tuberculosis, at the same time enjoy." Then all right, go to hell. What can be done? Enjoyment is the life, but when you are diseased, you must first of all "Heal thyself," then enjoy. That enjoyment will be nice. This is the instruction of śāstra, that you are working so hard day and night like hogs and dogs, but where is your enjoyment? First of all cure your disease. Then you will be happy. Simply working hard like hogs and dogs, you are thinking that you will enjoy. That is not possible. Hogs and dogs, they simply work hard, but there is no enjoyment. Is there any enjoyment in the life of dogs and hogs? They simply work hard, that's all. So human life is also meant for that purpose, that you will blindly work like hogs and dogs and no enjoyment? Still you are hankering after enjoyment. You should know what is enjoyment, how to do it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.