One who has understood Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller, the Supreme Person, the supreme maintainer, and everything the supreme, ultimate, then he can become guru. Otherwise, don't try to become guru. Impersonalists, half-understood, partial-understood, he cannot become guru. This is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's formula. Therefore, first of all try to understand Kṛṣṇa. You will understand in such a way that you can refute all others' argument, all others' opposition. There are so many opposing elements. Then you are guru. Otherwise you cannot become a guru. Guru is not so teeny thing or trifle thing that everyone becomes Guru Mahārāja. No. That is not guru. Sa mahātmā. . . Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
So their theory, this atheistic theory, is aparaspara-sambhūtam. It has taken by mechanical arrangement. Mechanical. . . Kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8). Kāma. Just like kāma—a man, a woman becomes lusty, and there is sex, and there is production. So they say like that. The production is like that. There is no other plan. But there is a big plan. That they do not know. The plan is: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). That is plan. But these rascal, this atheist class, they say, kim anyat kāma-haitukam: "Only lusty desires, that is the only reason. That is the only cause." The atheist class think like that, that "This birth is taking place due to our lusty desires, but we do not want to take responsibility. Then kill him." What is that? Therefore, they are making this abortion, killing of the child, as legal. The kāma. . . "We had some lusty desires, and we got it, but we don't want it. Kill it." That's all. This is going on. This is atheism. But it is not that. That child has come. It is a living entity. It desired a certain thing, and therefore he has given chance to take birth as human being or as cat, as dog. Kāma-haitukam.
Then why one is born as a cat, one is born as a dog, one is born as a rich man's son, one who is born as. . ., so many varieties? Why? If kāma-haitukam, then why not one variety? Where is the question of varieties? What is the answer? Why there are so many varieties? Everyone wants to take birth in rich family, in high family. Why one is born as a street dog and there is no food, and crying, barking, and somebody is capturing and eating and no protection? Why? Why kāma-haitukam? The dog is also born by the lusty desires of the male dog and the female dog, but why he is dog, and why he is such a rich man's son? Why? What is the answer? If kāma-haitukam, lusty desire, is the only cause for birth, production, then why there is one production street dog, cat or pig or a worm in the stool, and why one is born as demigod, as Indra or Candra, Varuṇa? Why? A Brahmā? Who makes this arrangement? Why one is put into such exalted position, and why one is put into that abominable position? What is the answer? Kāma-haitukam.
Trivikrama: Past activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot say it's by chance. And who is making this chance arrangement, that one is born so exalted, one is born so low? Then again, we have to accept somebody. So these are all foolish theories, "By chance, by kāma-haitukam." No. There is great arrangement. As the same. . . Just like the traffic control. There is a very big, great arrangement behind this. It is not by chance. By chance there has been not line, and they pass the car in certain line. No, it is not chance. How you can say "chance"? (devotees offer obeisances as altar curtains open) So these theories are made by the demons. Read the purport.
Nitāi: "The demoniac conclude that the world is a phantasmagoria. There is no cause, no effect, no controller, no purpose: everything is unreal. They say that this cosmic manifestation arises due to chance material actions and reactions. They do not think that the world was created by God for a certain purpose. They have their own theory: that the world has come about in its own way and that there is no reason to believe that there is a God behind it. For them there is no difference between spirit and matter, and they do not accept the Supreme Spirit. Everything is matter only, and the whole cosmos is supposed to be a mass of ignorance."
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say chemical evolution. They cannot think of spirit. Go on.
Nitāi: "According to them, everything is void, and whatever manifestation exists is due to our ignorance in perception. They take it for granted that all manifestation of diversity is a display of ignorance. Just as in a dream we may create so many things which actually have no existence, so when we are awake we shall see that everything is simply a dream. But factually, although the demons say that life is a dream, they are very expert in enjoying this dream. And so, instead of acquiring knowledge, they become more and more implicated in their dreamland. They conclude that as a child is simply the result of sexual intercourse between man and woman, this world is born without any soul. For them it is only a combination of matter that has produced the living entities, and there is no question of the existence of the soul. As many living creatures come out from the perspiration and from a dead body without any cause, similarly, the whole living world has come out from the material combinations of the cosmic manifestation. Therefore, material nature is the cause of this manifestation, and there is no other cause. They do not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10): 'Under My direction the whole material world is moving.' In other words, amongst the demons, there is no perfect knowledge of the creation of this world; every one of them has a particular theory of his own. According to them, one interpretation of the scriptures is as good as another, for they do not believe in a standard understanding of the scriptural injunctions."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is demonic. Now any question? (pause) This demonic conclusion will not help us. Then we shall remain in ignorance; there is no knowledge. Any question? Can you put any question on behalf of the demons? (laughter)
Trivikrama: Well, I am very expert at the demon mentality, but I'm afraid you've destroyed all arguments that I might put forth.
Prabhupāda: Any of our friends, Japanese friends here?
Japanese man: Yes, I have one question. You mentioned that we can hear a car from outside, but we cannot see car. But. . .
Prabhupāda: No, we can see car. But just like here we are sitting. We do not see the car, but the sound is there, but you conclude that there is a car. So therefore seeing is not always the sound reasoning. Even without seeing, we can conclude there is car. That is my point.
Japanese man: And what is the example of sound of God in this world?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Japanese man: Just like your example of God and God's sound in this world.
Prabhupāda: Sound is the original ingredient of creation.
Trivikrama: He's asking how can we see God in this world. Although we can't see Him, how can we. . .?
Japanese man: Can hear His sound.
Prabhupāda: You can see. You can hear the sound, "Kṛṣṇa." Are you not hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa? So that is a question of realization. You go on hearing, hearing. The child cannot understand what is the sound. The sound is the same. The car is going on. But his father can understand that with this sound this car is going on. But child cannot understand. So you begin hearing, then gradually your ignorance will be cleansed, and then you understand that the sound is for car. Therefore you have to begin to hear the sound. Everyone is hearing, but those who are not experienced, they cannot understand that this sound is of the car. But the. . . One understands or not understands, that doesn't matter. But the sound is of the car, that's a fact. So those who are experienced, they are understanding; those who are not experienced, they do not understand. That is the difference. It is the difference of experience. But the sound is of the car—that is a fact. Similarly, the Hare Kṛṣṇa sound is God. Those who are advanced, they can understand. And those who are not yet advanced, by hearing, hearing, they will understand. You want to see God. That is your idea?
Japanese man: No. I don't know if I ever see God or not.
Prabhupāda: No, you have not seen, but what is your desire? You want to see?
Japanese man: I want to at least hear God in this world, and I was wondering what is. . .
Prabhupāda: So God is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. Just like reading, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. So hear it, God speaking, the sound. The devotees are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa; that is God, that sound is God, śabda-brahma. This is the way. And if you want to see God, you can see also. That is prescribed here. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ (BG 7.8): "I am the sunlight and moonlight." So you see the sunlight, moonlight, and you see God. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the sunlight. I am this moonlight." Then if you want to see Kṛṣṇa, you see the. . . Sunlight you can see very easily. Is it very difficult for you? Then Kṛṣṇa says, He personally says, that "I am the sunlight." You see the sunlight. You go on sunlight, seeing the sunlight, and you just take the words of Bhagavad-gītā, "Now here is Kṛṣṇa." Then you will understand, "Here is God." And factually you will see.