Paramahaṁsa: The example of Lord Caitanya carrying the body of Haridāsa Ṭhākura is evidence that the body is perfectly spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes, (indistinct). If you want to argue, this is the argument, logic. So how you can refute it? An iron rod, you put into the fire. Everyone knows that it is iron rod. And when it is red hot, then even though you know it is iron rod, but it is fire. Similarly, material body, when it is saturated with spiritual activities, it is no more material. What is material and spiritual, what is the distinction? The distinction is that when we forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Now we say it is day because there is light, and when there is no light it is night. But where is the situation changed? The situation is the same: the same planet, the same tree, the same house. Now we say it is day, and at night the same house, the same land, the same tree, it will be night. So what is the difference? The difference is presence and absence of the sun. So on account of presence and absence of Kṛṣṇa things become material and spiritual. If you keep yourself always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you are spiritual, and if you forget Kṛṣṇa, material. Just like the sky. The sky is always clear, but when there is occasional appearance of the cloud then you say the sky is not clear. Sky is always clear. When it is covered by the cloud it is called not clear. Clearness means surpassing the condition of not-clearness.
Paramahaṁsa: Surpassing the condition of what?
Prabhupāda: (to guest) You can come here. So if you keep always in clear condition, then it is all right. That is Brahman. And if you bring cloud, then it is material, polluted. So the cloud is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. Consciousness is there. If you keep it always Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is spiritual, and if you bring some other consciousness—material things—then it is material consciousness. Consciousness is already there. That the sky is already there, you bring in clouds, then it is not clear... The whole night cloudy sky, and then as soon as the cloud is cleared, the sky is very nice. Similarly, we are trying to bring Kṛṣṇa, or clear sky. That is our program. Actually that is the condition of sky. Sky is always clear. Some portion, it becomes dark on account of; tiny portion. When this Hawaii, it is cloudy, it does not mean the whole sky is cloudy. Millions and millions of miles you go out of the cloud you will see everything clear. By aeroplane you have got experience. Downward the plane you will find some clouds, say few thousand miles, but what is few thousand miles in the sky? Few million miles also is nothing. Therefore the spiritual world is unlimited. It is only, only portion—this material world—little portion. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (BG 10.42). Only a little portion, this material world. Not that this material world is a, I mean… No. The sky is expanding four billion miles up and down, this diameter. Even a few million miles covered by cloud, what is that? How many millions make a billion?
Prabhupāda: Hundred million?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: Or thousand million? There is... So this question of billions of miles, so say even one million of miles becomes cloudy. That is not joke, one million miles; you cannot imagine. Twenty-five thousand miles, finish our world. What is the question of million? If you go twenty-five thousand miles, then the world area is finished. So this question of millions... Millions, many millions, billion and such four billion. That is the space. So even hundred miles, two hundred miles, that is cloudy, it doesn’t affect the sky, neither the sun. We are affected. Our eyes are covered. We say, "There is no sun." We are affected; not that there is no God, there is no sun. We are poor fellow. Our teeny knowledge is affected, and we say there is no sun. Just like same, rabbit philosophy: close the eyes—there is no enemy... The enemy is in front; he will kill him. He, out of fear, closes the eyes, and he thinks there is no enemy. And the maṇḍūka, kūpa-maṇḍūka, three-feet water, he thinks that this is the area of water. And if he is informed about the Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, what he will understand? And every one of these rascals, they are trying to understand God from his standard of understanding. Kūpa-maṇḍūka. Just like the frog is trying to understand Atlantic Ocean by measuring the well, that's all. This is position. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). He does not know what is the real position. Paraṁ bhāvam. Paraṁ bhāvam, ajānanto—without any knowledge.