Prabhupāda: Man can eat grains, food grains, fruits, milk, sugar, wheat...
Cardinal Danielou: Not, not, (French)?
Yogeśvara: No flesh?
Cardinal Danielou: No flesh?
Prabhupāda: No. Why? Just like the fruits. The fruits are meant for human being. The tiger does not come to eat your fruits. So tiger's food is another animal. Man's food is fruit, food grains, milk products. Just like fruit...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes. I understand. It is why because grain and plants are also living beings.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, that's all right.
Cardinal Danielou: Living beings.
Prabhupāda: That, that we also understand. But if, if you cannot live... Just like, generally, if I can live on fruits and grains and milk, why should I kill another animal?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes...
Prabhupāda: Another thing is that how can you support that animal killing is not sin?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: (French)
Bhagavān: How do you justify it?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, because we, we thought that there is a difference of nature between life of man, life of spirit, and biological, biological life. And we say... (break) ...not really exists, and we think so. We think that animals, plant are not real beings, are world of appearance and that you human person only is real being. And that in this sense, the material world is without importance.
Prabhupāda: Now..., I follow. Suppose you are living in this house. So you are not this house, that's a fact.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: But if I come and break your house, is it not inconvenience for you?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, surely. Surely it is inconvenient.
Prabhupāda: So if I cause inconvenience unto you, is it not criminal?
Cardinal Danielou: It is inconvenient to me, but is...
Prabhupāda: No. If I cause some inconvenience to you, is it not criminal? Is it not sinful?
Cardinal Danielou: I think if there is a serious reason, it is not the destruction of the spiritual man itself. By example, it is perfectly possible to use of the reality of the material world, of the natural world to the valuable finality of human vocation. We think that the question is a question of motivation. It could exist bad reason to kill an animal. But if the killing of animal is to give food to children, men, women, we ont faim. Qui...?
Devotee: Hungry.
Cardinal Danielou: Hungry, we are hungry, it is legitimate, legitimate... We have... It is difficult to admit that in India, comment dit-on les vaches?
Yogeśvara: The cows.
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the cows.
Prabhupāda: One thing is...
Danielou: It is not permitted to kill a...?
Yogeśvara: Cow.
Cardinal Danielou: ...a cow to give him to children who are hungry and the...
Prabhupāda: No, no, from any other consideration, cows' milk we drink. Therefore she's mother. Is it not?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Oui.
Yogeśvara: N'est ce pas?
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, yes, surely, surely, but the...
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conversion, we have got seven mothers. Ātma-mātā, the original mother, guroḥ patnī, wife of the master, spiritual master...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes.
Bhagavān: Can you understand?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of the priest.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou:
Prabhupāda: Rāja-patnikā, the wife of king, the queen.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: Four. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī rāja-patnikā, dhenur. Dhenu means cow. Dhenur dhātrī. Dhātrī means nurse. Tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī means earth. These are seven mothers. So cow is mother because we drink milk, cow's milk.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How can I deny that she's not mother? So how we can support killing of mother?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, it is a motive. But we think that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, those who are meat-eaters, they are advised... That is also under restriction. Advised to kill some lower animals like goats, even up to buffaloes. But cow killing is the greatest sin.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, we... I know this. I know this. And this is for us a difficulty, a difficulty...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because the cow is mother.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes...
Prabhupāda: You, you take the milk from the mother...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: And when she's old, she cannot give you milk, therefore she should be killed?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is that very good proposal?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui, oui.
Yogeśvara: He says yes, it is.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: He says: "Yes, it is a good proposition."
Cardinal Danielou: If, if the men are hungry, it is the life of men is more important than the life of cow.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because we are propagating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we ask people to, not to eat meat, any kind.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: But if, under certain circumstances, you are obliged to eat meat, eat the flesh of some lower animals. Don't kill cows. It is the greatest sin. And so long one will be sinful, he'll not be able to understand what is God. But human being, main business is to understand God and to love Him. But if he remains sinful, neither he can understand God, and what to, what is the question of loving Him. Therefore at least from the human society, this cruel maintenance of slaughterhouses must be stopped.
Cardinal Danielou: (French)
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui. I think that this is perhaps not an essential point. I think that in this realm the uses of various religions can be good. The importance is to love God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.
Cardinal Danielou: When God says that it is not good to Indian, and says to the Jews that it is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now take... Therefore I say that Jesus Christ, either you call him God, or confidential representative of God, both of them are one, when he says: "Thou shalt not kill," why should we interpret in an another way, to our convenience?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, but Jesus eated (French, refers to passover lamb)
Yogeśvara: (French)
Cardinal Danielou: Mutton, mutton.
Yogeśvara: Oh, the sheep.
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the sheeps...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Jesus Christ never maintained slaughterhouse.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Non, mais... He eated, he eated, he eated...
Prabhupāda: In certain circumstances, when there is no other food, that a life must be saved. That is another thing. But why regularly slaughterhouse should be maintained for the satisfaction of the tongue?
Yogeśvara: Is it clear? (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Oui. But I think there is, at first, a great duty to help men and women and children to live and actually it is the first duty. It is more important to help men and women to life. The life of beast is of minor importance than the life of men.
Prabhupāda: From that point of view, you can kill lower animals. Why should you kill mother?
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui. Mother. Man, as human being is not the same that...
Prabhupāda: And it is not moral. Even if you kill animals for maintaining your..., allowing that, there are many other, hundreds and thousands of animals. So if you at all require, people eat also hogs, sometimes, in wartime, they ate dogs also. And there are persons, they regularly eat dogs in Korea. They eat dogs regularly. So even animal killing is necessary for...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, it is...
Prabhupāda: ...for eating, then at least the mother animal should not be killed. That is from moral point of view.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, from moral point of view...
Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I understand that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much.