Prajāpati: No, they were... One scientist, Galileo, he was making all kinds of inquiries into saying that the earth is round and so many things, and the church of that day, the rascal priests, they put him to death because he was saying things that were not in the scriptures. Since that time, especially the last hundred years, the scientists are...
Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there. Yes, world is round. That is fact. Goloka. In Vedic literature it is bhū-gola, jagad-aṇḍa. These words are there. We can see also it is round, jagad-aṇḍa. The universe is round. And Goloka. Or Bhū-gola. Bhū-gola, the earth is round. So in the Vedic literatures... Therefore their knowledge is also imperfect because they do not refer to the Vedic literatures. It is already there. Bhū-gola. Bhū means the earth; gola means round. It is already there. And the geography's called, according to Sanskrit, it is called Bhū-gola. Long, long ago, before Galileo. So if the state is blind, he does not see whether he's talking right or wrong, then havi candra raja gobi candra mantri (?). What can be done. That is going on. Because the government means a set of fools, so all foolish people are flourishing. Government is a set of fools because sinful men. They cannot be intelligent. A sinful man cannot be intelligent. Yes. That's a fact. If he's intelligent, then his intelligence is used for wrong things. Duṣkṛtina. Kṛtina. Kṛtina means intelligent, but duṣkṛtina, badly intelligent, for doing wrong things. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Of course, there is a gap of understanding.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a gap of understanding.
Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you." They will, they have no power to understand. So if a human being cannot understand, what is the difference between these pigeons and cats and dogs and him? Then basic principle is wrong. Just like in mathematical calculation, if at one point you have mistaken, then will that be correct ever? It will go on, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking. If the, if one point, while adding, you have made two plus two equal to five, then after that, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything wrong. So that is their position. Their basic principle is like animal. The animal cannot understand that there is soul and there is transmigration of the soul. And if the human society makes progress of their so-called knowledge on this wrong basis understanding, then what will be the result? Everything wrong, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything foolish. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam: "If somebody does not know what is ātma-tattva, what is the science of soul, then whatever he is making, so-called advancement that is all defeat." Parābhava. That is being done. And defeat they are taking as success. Just like these rascal scientists, they could not go and settle in the moon planet. Still, they are saying, "It is success. It is success." Just see the fun. What success? You could not stay there, and what success you have got? Simply by seeing a crack? "Yes." That's all right, success. And people are accepting, "Oh, yes, you are successful. Now go to another planet." These bogus things are going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're called technolo... (heavy waves)
Prabhupāda: They may call whatever they like. But we are sane man. We cannot take the... We can say only that "You are all defeated." They may say. A fool will never agree that he's a fool. He'll always say, "I am very intelli..." That is another foolishness. After spending millions of... for one coat for going to the moon planet? Forty-thousand dollar? What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. Billions of dollars were spent.
Prabhupāda: That coat?
Śrutakīrti: No, coat.
Brahmānanda: Spacesuit.
Karandhara: Oh yes. Millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are spending, squandering public money. You see? But nobody is to stop this.
Prajāpati: The demons have always been trying to make staircases and towers up to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Demonic.
Prajāpati: In the Bible, it is also. An attempt was made to build a big, huge tower up to heaven. And the Lord was not very pleased with this attempt, and He scattered all the people. (about the ocean) Just wants to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Big, powerful waves, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Big, powerful waves.
Prabhupāda: No, not very much. Up to this powerful. (laughter) Up to ten feet, that's all. (break)
Prajāpati: ...if these world leaders and scientists could hear your nectarean words and accept them and surrender, the world would be a very wonderful place.
Prabhupāda: Then make them. That is your duty. I am talking to you, and you talk to them. That is paramparā system. Alone, I cannot go everywhere. Now you learn and you speak.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...first-class economist. We are trying to save the state money from being unnecessarily squandered away. The so-called scientists, politicians, they are simply wasting money. (break)
Prajāpati: ...fear this condition is hopeless.
Prabhupāda: No, not at all. You simply expose these rascals, and everything hopeful. You have to know how to expose these rascals. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: So the more we preach and chant, the more we become purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to become powerful spiritually. Then you'll be able. If you remain weak and manufacture your own way, then it will not be possible.