Acyutānanda: (break) ...the authority of a authority. We're accepting his authority, but his experience comes from his direct perception, which comes back to...
Prabhupāda: We don't take such authorities, who takes experience from others. We take authority who is...
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Experienced.
Prabhupāda: Automatically. (sic:) Parāsya bhaktir vividhaiva śruyate svabhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svabhāva..., you can.... Just like if you ask me how to do something, if I say, "Yes, you do like this," svabhāvikī. I have got by nature knowledge how to do it perfectly. That is going on. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Kṛṣṇa is dictating that "You do like this." So, you see, everything is coming perfect. From the nim seed a nim tree will come. It is so nicely made by Kṛṣṇa-bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10)—that it will come nim tree, not mango tree. The chemicals are so combined. You do not know what is there, a small seed, baṭa vṛkṣa. And a huge banyan tree will come out, not other tree. That is knowledge. He has given the whole, I mean to say, operation in a small seed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. There is no mistake. You simply take it and cultivate. You'll get the result.
Acyutānanda: So that principle, which makes things grow, the Īśopaniṣad says, so 'ham asmi: "I am that principle."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Acyutānanda: The Īśopaniṣad says in the ultimate śloka, so 'ham asmi: "I am that."
Prabhupāda: Asmi means "It is my energy. It is my energy."
Acyutānanda: No, it says...
Prabhupāda: If I say that "I am ISKCON," what is the wrong there? Because I have created this; therefore I say, "ISKCON means I. I am ISKCON." So what is the wrong there? It is like that. By energy of Kṛṣṇa, everything has come out. Therefore says, "I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this." Vibhūti-bhinnam. Because everything.... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything has come from Kṛṣṇa.
Acyutānanda: No, the Īśopaniṣad says that you are that principle. Īśopaniṣad says the principle which is lighting the sun...
Prabhupāda: Yes, a devotee accepts.... That we accept.
Acyutānanda: ...that "I am that principle. The being that is lighting the sun, I am that."
Prabhupāda: I do not follow you.
Acyutānanda: So 'ham asmi. That sixteenth...
Harikeśa: "Like unto the sun, as am I."
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes, so 'ham asmi—because I am part and parcel.
Acyutānanda: No, but it says "I am that, " not that "I am part of that."
Prabhupāda: No.
Acyutānanda: "I am that." "Like unto..."
Prabhupāda: If it is said, it can be accepted, because I am qualitatively the same.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Quantity, much difference.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: No, but the direct statement...
Prabhupāda: I am.... If I say, "I am Indian," what is the wrong there, if I say, "I am Indian"?
Acyutānanda: That is something else.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not something else.
Acyutānanda: But to directly accept the śruti, it says you are that same principle.
Prabhupāda: And therefore you have to learn from the guru. And if you directly take, then you remain a fool. Therefore you require a guru. That is the instruction of śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn śruti. You have to come to a guru.
Acyutānanda: No, but this is after that. The ultimate conclusion of that Upaniṣad, śruti, the authority, is that you are that same principle.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the same principle. Nityo nityānām.
Acyutānanda: Well, nothing can be more eternal than another eternal.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is eternal.
Acyutānanda: It is contradictory then. Nityo nityanānāṁ. You cannot say that one thing is more eternal than another thing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the point. Everyone is eternal.