Prabhupāda: So in our Argentina we are no longer...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no more.
Prabhupāda: So...
Brahmānanda: They arrested some of our Argentine devotees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five devotees were arrested.
Brahmānanda: Americans were not arrested.
Prabhupāda: We cannot bring any case?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. They are the government. The government has arrested. There is no real law system there right now. It is a dictatorship, military dictatorship, a very volatile situation.
Prabhupāda: Like Russia.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in some ways worse, because it is not at all stable. There's nothing set. It's just chaotic.
Brahmānanda: Open murders. They have squads going around and taking people and just...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shooting. Very dangerous.
Brahmānanda: Many prominent Argentine people are fleeing the country, going to Mexico and other places. So now they have just uncovered a big plot where the Argentines were sending assassins to other countries to kill the Argentine...
Prabhupāda: Refugees.
Brahmānanda: So they have just uncovered a list of names. It was put in the paper. The economy of Argentina is almost ninety percent on beef production, animal slaughter.
Hari-śauri: The biggest beef country in the world.
Prabhupāda: They eat beef only.
Brahmānanda: And export all over the world.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've seen that they eat beef in the morning, noon and evening. I personally saw in South America that in these South American countries they eat meat sometimes three meals in a day. Of course, in America they do it also. I remember in restaurants in Mexico they were doing that. Very big meat-eaters.
Prabhupāda: In Russia also, simply eating meat.
Brahmānanda: Meat and vodka.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They have no vegetables available. I read in the newspapers here in India now that Poland, they are putting up a vodka factory. Punjab.
Prabhupāda: What is that vodka?
Brahmānanda: It's a liquor made from potato. So now they're making a factory in Punjab.
Prabhupāda: Punjab?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So government has allowed.
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. So they will make vodka here for exporting to Poland because the Polish people like vodka very much. So now they will produce in India.
Prabhupāda: The Polish Embassy is there near our Calcutta for seeing this business going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Side by side, we are on the opposite business.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Things are deteriorating everywhere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very quickly.
Prabhupāda: So this will give impetus to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will act through His movement and kill them, these demons. How it will be done, that you cannot know now, but it will be done. Let us remain true soldiers. That's all. And if it is a fight, suppose we die in the fight. The fight means with vow, with determination either to gain victory or die. Because it is fight against māyā, why we shall be afraid of being killed? Where there is fight, one must know that "Either I am going to be killed or gain victory." Jīvo vā māro vā. Those who are devotees, either they live or they die—the same thing. While they live they are serving Kṛṣṇa; when they die they will serve Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). He goes to Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) So what is the loss? We are working for Kṛṣṇa, and if we die we go to Kṛṣṇa. So what is the loss? Same business.
Hari-śauri: No loss. There's just gain.
Prabhupāda: Jīvo vā māro vā: "Either you live or you die, it doesn't matter." And for butcher, nā jīvo nā māro: "Don't die; don't live. So long you are living, every morning you have to cut throat of so many. And if you die you shall go to hell and suffer for this cutting throat. So don't live; don't die." And for a devotee: "Live or die." And for prince, king's son. "Don't die." And for brahmacārī... (break) All night screaming, and they have to hear, the Indians.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Publicly.
Prabhupāda: Because they know the Indian Hindus, they have got sentiment for cow killing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why? Why...?
Prabhupāda: They may go away.
Hari-śauri: Because every five years or so they move them to another area. They have to uproot everything and move somewhere else.
Prabhupāda: Very badly treated, Indians. The blacks are still more badly treated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That government is going to be finished soon.
Prabhupāda: When I had to go that Indian quarter in Johannesburg, at least ten miles by car through the darkness.
Brahmānanda: The Indian quarters are far off.
Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi was born in...?
Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.