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| <div id="facts"> | | <div id="facts"> |
| {{terms|"He accepted him as learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul"|"He's in Madhavendra Puri's line"|"His guru, Vallabhacarya's guru, is"|"No, you explained that before"}} | | {{terms|"He accepted him as a learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul"|"No, you explained that before. His ''guru'', Vallabhācārya's ''guru'', is . . . he's in Mādhavendra Purī's line"}} |
| {{notes|}} | | {{notes|}} |
| {{compiler|MadhuGopaldas}} | | {{compiler|MadhuGopaldas|Rishab}} |
| {{complete|ALL}} | | {{complete|ALL}} |
| {{first|16Jul11}} | | {{first|16Jul11}} |
| {{last|16Jul11}} | | {{last|15Jul12}} |
| {{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}} | | {{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}} |
| {{total|1}} | | {{total|1}} |
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| [[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]] | | [[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]] |
| [[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]] | | [[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]] |
| | [[Category:Questions On... Caitanya, His Associates]] |
| | [[Category:Questions On... Authority and Authenticity]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1966 - 1977]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1975]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - in India, Mayapur]] |
| | [[category:Prabhupada Speaks - Answering Questions, 1975]] |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> | | <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> |
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| <div class="heading">Hm? No. They come in the Viṣṇu Svāmī. I do not exactly know who was his immediate guru. | | <div class="heading">Hm? No. They come in the Viṣṇu Svāmī. I do not exactly know who was his immediate guru. |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur|Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Acyutānanda: ...stuff His ears up when anyone would refer to Him as God. He wants to be known as a devotee. But we worship Him as God, in the same line as Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So how do we understand that?</p> | | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Lord Caitanya doesn't want to be praised as God, but we worship Him as such.</p>
| | <mp3player>https://vanipedia.s3.amazonaws.com/clip/750331R1-MAYAPUR_clip3.mp3</mp3player> |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That is a warning to the future fools and rascals that even God does not like to be addressed as God. But we address Him as God on the strength of śāstra. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā kṛṣṇaṁ saṅgo-paṅgastra... ([[Vanisource:SB 11.5.32|SB 11.5.32]]), yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ. Here is the incarnation of God. That is... Śāstra says. So out of His humbleness, He may say like that, but we should know by following the ācāryas, by śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya. Guru accepts Him God; śāstra accepts Him God; sādhu accepts Him God.</p>
| | <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur|Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;"> |
| <p>Acyutānanda: The people say that just like Rāmakrishna, the disciples presented Him as God, but He never said He was God.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: But then where is the śāstra? Three things: the devotee or saintly person, śāstra and guru. He has no guru. He has no support from the śāstra. (laughs) So he's a fool, rascal number one, and he is God. He was a illiterate priest. He had no knowledge of śāstra. Besides that, in the śāstra it is said that "Those who are worshiping other demigods, their intelligence is lost." So he was worshiping Kālī. So he had no intelligence or spiritual realization, and he became God? So these things can be accepted by other fools and rascals. But those who follow śāstra, they will reject immediately.</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: What if they say Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a devotee, He worshiped the Supreme Lord, kīrtana, but His disciples say He's God?</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know that. So actually . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Simply the disciples have said He's God.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: He was simply proud of his education. He had no realization. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No. That... Why do you...? I have already said that He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by learned scholars, means, in the transcendental scholars. And supported by guru. We follow our guru. So guru says; śāstra says; saintly persons say. Therefore we accept.</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: They interpret that verse in another way.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You explained that . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That, the rascals do. They are... What is their value? When these rascals says that worshiping Kālī, one becomes God...</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: No. No. Vaiṣṇavas.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: Do they worship in ''vātsalya-rasa'', or just show? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: The Rāmānuja and the Madhva, they say, kṛṣṇa-varṇam means "black." Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣa kṛṣṇam: ([[Vanisource:SB 11.5.32|SB 11.5.32]]) "But He is effulgent."</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Show, formality. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Hm? No. We should follow our ācāryas. Why...</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: No, but how to convince them that? They will never accept Cai...</p>
| | Acyutānanda: It's not genuine. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No. "You are also ācārya, but we have got our own ācārya. Why should I follow you?"</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: But how to convince them?</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not genuine. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Convince means they will not be convinced. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam, kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati. One who is describing Kṛṣṇa, that is kṛṣṇa-varṇa. And kṛṣṇa-varṇa does not mean black. And again it is confirmed, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. So how can they say, "black"? By complexion, He is akṛṣṇa. So how they can interpret that He's black?</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: That it says... They interpret kṛṣṇa-varṇam...</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Some of them say that "Kṛṣṇa, becoming . . . before becoming polluted." They say like that. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam means kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati iti kṛṣṇa-varṇam. If it is kṛṣṇa-varṇa, then how it is again confirmed, tviṣā akṛṣṇa?</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: That is His effulgence.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That is his interpretation. Tviṣā, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ, śuklo raktas tathā pitaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So God has other colors also. White and red and yellow. So here is yellow. Tviṣā akṛṣṇa. So we have to follow Jīva Gosvāmī. What these rascals, we have to follow? We don't follow. If you have got a interpretation, we have got better interpretation. Why shall I accept you? My mother says, "Here is your father." I shall accept that, or somebody says, "Here is your father" Whom shall I accept? Mother's version. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam ([[Vanisource:BG 4.2|BG 4.2]]). We should accept the paramparā ācāryas, not whimsically anyone's interpretation you have to accept.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it's very clear that if one does not accept Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then actually he cannot worship Kṛṣṇa properly.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: That means childhood age, there is no pollution, and youthhood age, Kṛṣṇa's, it was polluted by the ''gopīs''. This is their version. "Kṛṣṇa becomes polluted." |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That's a fact.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now just to carry on with Acyutānanda Mahārāja's point, it would seem then that the Rāmānujis and the Madhvites, they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So how can they possibly...</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say like that. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Therefore they cannot understand the higher rasas.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Do they say like that? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Unnata-ujjvala-rasam, they cannot understand.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can understand śānta-rasa.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have spoken to them, in Hyderabad, that Bal Krishna Das. And another thing they say is that Rādhārāṇī's name is not mentioned in ''Bhāgavata''. So this whole emphasis on Rādhā is not correct. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dāsya-rasa.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: Is not correct. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That's all.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not sākhya.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: That means they cannot understand ''rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛti'' ([[vanisource:CC Adi 1.5|CC Adi 1.5]]). They cannot understand. And therefore in their community you won't find any high-class devotee. Simply official sentiment, that's all. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Not more than that. They cannot meditate. There is no paternal rasa or madhurya-rasa in their community.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the Vallabhites, they also... Actually they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They say Vallabhācārya is their Mahāprabhu. And they worship in...</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I . . . is Vallabhācārya . . .? So he cannot be considered actually in proper line. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know that. So actually...</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Because Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: He was simply proud of his education. He had no realization.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You explained that...</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in the line with . . . |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Do they worship in vātsalya-rasa or just show?</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Show, formality.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: He accepted him as a learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul. |
| <p>Acyutānanda: It's not genuine.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not genuine.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you explained that before. His ''guru'', Vallabhācārya's ''guru'', is . . . he's in Mādhavendra Purī's line? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Some of them say that "Kṛṣṇa, becoming, before becoming polluted." They say like that.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Hmm? No. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That means childhood age, there is no pollution, and youthhood age, Kṛṣṇa's, it was polluted by the gopīs. This is their version. Kṛṣṇa becomes polluted.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say like that.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: Viṣṇu Svāmī . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Do they say like that?</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have spoken to them, in Hyderabad, that Bāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa. And another thing they say is that Rādhārāṇī's name is not mentioned in Bhāgavata. So this whole emphasis on Rādhā is not correct.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: They come in the Viṣṇu Svāmī. I do not exactly know who was his immediate ''guru''. |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Is not correct.</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That means they cannot understand rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛti. They cannot understand. And therefore in their community you won't find any high-class devotee. Simply official sentiment. That's all.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I'm just trying to clear these points up because, I remember when I was preaching in South India, this discussion came up, that . . . just like Mādhavendra Purī, he found the Deity of Gopāla, and you've explained . . . |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I... Is Vallabhācārya...? So he cannot be considered in proper line.</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Because Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: That is our Gauḍīya. Mādhavendra Purī is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in the line with...</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: He accepted him as learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You explained how he was worshiping the Deity. Now, that Deity of Gopāla . . . |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you explained that before. His guru, Vallabhācārya's guru, is... He's in Mādhavendra Purī's line?</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Hm? No.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: Śrīnāthjī. |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Viṣṇu Svāmī...</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: They come in the Viṣṇu Svāmī. I do not exactly know who was his immediate guru.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīnāthjī. So that Deity was eventually handed over? |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I'm just trying to clear these points up because, I remember when I was preaching in South India, this discussion came up, that... Just like Mādhavendra Purī, he found the Deity of Gopāla, and you've explained...</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That is our Gauḍīya. Mādhavendra Purī is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Yes. |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You explained how he was worshiping the Deity. Now, that Deity of Gopāla...</p>
| | |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Śrīnāthjī.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: During Muhammadans, the Deity was moved. |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīnāthjī. So that Deity was eventually handed over?</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
| | Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Vallabhācārya . . . |
| <p>Acyutānanda: During Mohammedans, the Deity was moved.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Vallabhācārya...</p>
| | Acyutānanda: I heard that after the death of Vallabhācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī told his son to worship the Gopāla Deity. He engaged his son, Vallabhācārya's son, as a ''pūjārī'' in Govardhana. So then it came into their hands. |
| <p>Acyutānanda: I heard that after the death of Vallabhācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī told his son to worship the Gopāla Deity. He engaged his son, Vallabhācārya's son, as a pūjārī in Govardhana. So then it came into their hands.</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Hm? That may be, yes.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Hmm? That may be, yes. |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Then, when the Deity was moved, it was moved to Nāthadvāra, and now they, now they are...</p>
| | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: When the Deity was given to them, they could do anything.</p>
| | Acyutānanda: Then, when the Deity was moved, it was moved to Nāthadvāra, and now they, now they are . . . |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Yes. 'Cause his son was all hopeless that "The ācārya is dead and my father is dead." He didn't know what to do. But they have written... They have pictures. They draw pictures of Śrīnāthjī on Govardhana, and Vallabhācārya is worshiping Him, all over.</p>
| | |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a big... That's the reason. It's a big mistake. I had a discussion with one man. So I was stating that Mādhavendra Purī found this Deity, Gopāla, but their teaching is that Vallabhācārya found the Deity. I said, "No, Mādhavendra Purī handed the Deity over later on for worship, but it was he who found the Deity and originated the worship on Govardhana, and all the villagers..."</p>
| | Prabhupāda: When the Deity was given to them, they could do anything. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: It has been confirmed in the court that this Deity belongs to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas. There was big case amongst themselves, and the court gave judgement that "This Deity belongs to the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava."</p>
| |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Oh. When was that court case?</p>
| |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Say, about four, five years ago. No, about ten to fifteen years ago.</p>
| |
| <p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Recently.</p>
| |
| <p>Acyutānanda: Who represented the Gauḍīya...?</p>
| |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Nobody, but from the history it was found that it belonged to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. That... In Delhi one lawyer is there. He knows. He told me. (long pause)</p>
| |
| </div> | | </div> |
| </div> | | </div> |
| </div> | | </div> |
