Yogeśvara: (explains in French, Dr. Sallaz answers) He says first of all, so far as cooperation is concerned, he is just one man. He is the president. Although he is the president, still, he is only one man, and he can only speak in terms of cooperating with the spiritual movement among the more enlightened members of his group.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow.
Yogeśvara: (explains in French, Dr. Sallaz answers)
Prabhupāda: But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life.
Yogeśvara: (explains in French, Dr. Sallaz answers) He said if we look at . . . He says he knows about Guru Maharaj-ji. He says he has so many people following him. The only conclusion that we can have is that there are many, many people who are looking for spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Sallaz: And they took everything they can find. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. People, especially in the Western world, they are actually looking after some spiritual emancipation, but they think that from India . . . actually, that is a fact. Therefore, any rascal comes, they go round him. But why the Western people, those who are on the top of educational and social position, they try to understand what is spirit life and follow them, and place an ideal life so that others may follow?
Yogeśvara: (explains in French, Dr. Sallaz answers) Some of his members, some friends, were even visitors at the temples at Benares.
Prabhupāda: That is as a tourist, but that is not understanding of spiritual life.
Yogeśvara: (explains in French)
Dr. Sallaz: I don't speak of tourist. I speak of a holy man. Be careful: not a tourist. Not as a tourists. As a man having attained very high in truth, and for this reason, and not as a tourist. He was at the time crowded like you.
Prabhupāda: Holy man means . . .
Dr. Sallaz: (French)
Prabhupāda: The real purpose of going to holy places is to find out there the holy man and take knowledge from him. That is real going to the holy places of pilgrimage.
Yogeśvara: (explains in French, Dr. Sallaz answers) He says that his members who have gone to India, they themselves are considered to be holy men.
Dr. Sallaz: And he went not there as tourist or to inquire. He went to speak, to try to speak about the truth, not about . . . for questions.
Prabhupāda: So some of you have gone. So what truth you have seen? That is the . . . what is the truth? What you have learned about the truth?