Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-guru, if he's able to take him to the temple, then tīrtha guru. Otherwise he's a goru, cow, tīrtha cow. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Say like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Tell them that. He's unable to show Jagannātha. Then how he's guru? It is guru's responsibility to bring him to... That is upanayana. Upanayana, this sacred thread, means the guru brings him near God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this man gives them some thread, makes them touch his feet, the whole thing, offer coconut...
Prabhupāda: He's a foolish rascal. What can be done?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Jagannātha, when he was telling us about this bābājī, he said that there's also these bābājīs, they claim to be a guru for giving initiation into their svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, svarūpa-siddhi. So we can mention this as also rascaldom.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Cheaters there are. If you want to be cheated, who can save you? He has made guru without asking his guru. He submits to others. Then how we can save him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that do to his relationship with his own spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How does this affect his relationship with his...?
Prabhupāda: They don't care for his own spiritual master.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what...? That means their relationship is spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guror avajñā, aparādha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aparādha.
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, "Save yourself from aparādha." Some aparādha, and they are going away, just like Nitāi. Guror avajñā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called the elephant offense?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Vaiṣṇava-aparādha. The weak and the fools, they will be victimized. What can be done? Tīrtha-guru, the pāṇḍā is accepted tīrtha-guru... That... But he takes to Jagannātha temple and other holy places, gives him instruction about the holy places and so on, so on, shelter, food, in this way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. There is such a thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am unknown, so he helps me in every respect. So Vaiṣṇava accepts everyone as guru, śikṣā-guru, dīkṣā-guru, then tīrtha-guru. This is no harm. But what is this rascal, "No, no, you cannot sit down here. You take the flag and pay me hundred rupees?" if you are so rascal, who can save you?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha-goru.
Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-goru, that is called. That risk is there because in India there are so many places, holy places. If you are not expert, you'll be victimized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this svarūpa-siddhi?
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, that is bogus. Svarūpa-siddhi is not that you do all nonsense things and svarūpa-siddhi... Svarūpa-siddhi means when he is actually liberated, he understands what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is svarūpa-siddhi. Sākhya... So that is far away. Unless... If he's such a fool, then where is svarūpa-siddhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that realization doesn't come by some initiation from some bābājī.