Prabhupāda: Yes. The ātmā and Paramātmā, Paramātmā. As I was speaking, nityo nityānām. We are all nityas, eternal, but there is one chief nitya. Just like leader. Anywhere we go, we have got a leader. Now this, your Mexico state, there is a president. You cannot avoid it. In your college there is principal. There must be a leader. Similarly, the whole thing taken together, there must be one leader. You have to speak from experience that in your physical department or in your religious department there is a chief, leader, professor. Or you may be. But that is the way. Therefore Vedic information is that we are eternals, but there is another eternal who is chief eternal. That is God. He is eternal; we are also eternal. Then what is difference? The difference is that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That one eternal, chief eternal, He is maintaining all the subordinate eternals." So both the eternals are eternal and . . . the purpose is pleasure. Just like a small example, a family man. The father is the chief man in the family. The mother is there, the children are there, all together. But the father is the chief man in the family. He is maintaining the family, and there is ānanda, pleasure. Similarly, ānanda is the aim of both . . . all the eternals, the chief eternal or the subordinate eternal. But the supplier is the chief eternal. So when we come together, the chief eternal and the subordinate eternals, and enjoy together, that is the purpose of life. (pause)
Professor: According to existential philosophy . . . Indian philosophy I am thinking about, like for instance the Ramakrishna and Vivekananda and all these . . .
Prabhupāda: They are not philosopher.
Professor: They are all . . . (indistinct) . . . variations.
Prabhupāda: They have no philosophy.
Professor: Eh?
Prabhupāda: They have no philosophy.
Professor: I said you are also proposing the possibility to acquire knowledge through contact.
Prabhupāda: Our position is—I have already explained—that we are all imperfect. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the perfect. So God is perfect, or Kṛṣṇa is perfect, so we have to receive knowledge from Him. Then our knowledge is perfect. And so long we shall speculate, that is not perfect. Because you are speculating with imperfect instruments, what is the use?
Professor: (indistinct) . . . thing that the only way to aquire . . . through śabda.
Prabhupāda: If I want to cut this table, I must have proper instrument. If I want to cut this table with this book, "Let me cut this," how it will be possible? You must know that for cutting this table it requires this instrument.
Professor: Yes, they say that the only way to acquire knowledge is through śabda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabda-pramāṇa.
Professor: And I think other pramāṇas will be also possible according to those.
Prabhupāda: Just like I am trying something, and some experienced man says: "Do like this." This is śabda-pramāṇa. The śabda-pramāṇa, one who is . . . knows, he says: "Do like this." The "Do like this" means śabda, sound, and it enters your ear, and you do adjustment. Therefore śabda-pramāṇa. Just like you are sleeping, and one is . . . another man is coming to kill you. And another friend says: "Get up, get up, get up! There is enemy. He is coming to kill you." Then you wake up. Therefore the sound is the pramāṇa there was enemy. These are crude examples. When you are asleep, you cannot understand. You have got eyes, you have got hands, you have legs but no experience, but the ear gives you warning even if you are sleeping. There is enemy—your eyes cannot see, your hand cannot touch, but the ear can give you evidence, "Yes." As soon as you are awakened you say: "Yes, here is enemy. He is coming to kill me." Therefore the aural reception, sound reception, is the evidence. Knowledge received through authentic sound vibration, that is perfect.