Kīrtanānanda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.
Prabhupāda: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?
Kīrtanānanda: No, of course not.
Prabhupāda: That is our point. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligent? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal, killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement. When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are... Business is the same—animal killing and eating—but we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant, because you cannot give life to anyone. It is nature's law, God's law. So infringement on the laws of nature or God, it is sinful activities. So you are utilizing your merit for this sinful activity. Therefore it is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there, but it is utilized for sinful activities. That is defect of the modern civilization.
Kulaśekhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I remember once you said...
Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal; what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say, "You are rascal. You must go to school." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body, dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand, "Yes, this body will not remain"? While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? (asks child:) You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...
Kulaśekhara: I remember once when we were staying at John Lennon's estate, you said to me...
Kulaśekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men, and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Passion there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and we have got the facility, then we take to it.
Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain-taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life.
Prabhupāda: Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?
Kulaśekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Kṛṣṇa paints them with thought.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature." What is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (CC Madhya 13.65, purport). Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grain, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking—ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comfort, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore given a simple formula—chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.