Yaśomatīnandana: In the Vedic literatures it is stated, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). They can't even understand a simple thing.
Prabhupāda: No. dharma means the codes of . . . the laws of God. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam . . . (BG 18.66). This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says that, "You give up your nonsense manufactured religion. Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." Who will deny? Any religious person will accept it. Who will deny? This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. So who will deny? Who is that man who will deny this statement, that one has to surrender to the Supreme? Who will deny it? Therefore it is dharma. You have to submit. Just like the government: the government is the supreme. Who will deny? Who will deny?
Hṛdayānanda: Only the criminal.
Prabhupāda: Only the criminal. And he'll be punished, that's all. The result will be he'll be punished. Beaten with the shoes of policeman, that's all.
Karandhara: But some people get away with it.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . he'll get away. But you can get away from the police custody, but you cannot get away by māyā's custody. That is not possible.
Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say . . . in all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception.
Prabhupāda: No, exceptions are there. Mām eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God . . . (break) . . . there is no question of being . . . (break) . . . by māyā. If you surrender . . .
(break) . . . ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. (break) . . . if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).
Hṛdayānanda: You're too intelligent for the atheists, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: You're too intelligent for the atheists.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Atheist means criminal. They're punishable, that's all. And the more people becoming godless, they're being punished by nature.