Prabhupāda: One who is always merged in Kṛṣṇa thought, his body is not material.
Dr. Patel: That way you say.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is the way.
Dr. Patel: Now I understand.
Prabhupāda: Because his material body is not working. That is stopped. He's working simply spiritually. Therefore his body is spiritual. The same example: it has become so hot, red hot, that it is no more working as iron rod; it is working as fire.
Dr. Patel: Because it burns anybody who touches it.
Dr. Patel: So guru also does the same thing.
Dr. Patel: He electrifies anybody who touches him. So we touch your feet. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Therefore . . . therefore he has no material body.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupāda: It is aparādha. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ (Padma Purāṇa). This is forbidden. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Arcye śilā-dhīr . . . just like everyone knows . . . the atheist class will say: "Oh, here is a stone statue, and these rascals are worshiping as Kṛṣṇa."
Dr. Patel: That is wrong.
Prabhupāda: So everyone knows that is a stone statue. But we are so fool that we are worshiping a stone statue? Therefore this is offense. Arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara . . . (Padma Purāṇa) Similarly guru. Although he's working, moving just like ordinary human being, one should not consider that he's ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ.
Dr. Patel: That is how the guru can be accepted by . . .
Prabhupāda: Everyone knows that, "Here is a stone statue." That so many hundred and thousands of people are coming to worship that stone statue? Somebody can argue. The atheist will argue. And when . . . so . . . we have got millions of temples, especially in South India and Jagannātha Purī, and many where . . . so are they going, spending so much money to worship a statue? That is forbidden. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guru should not be considered in that way, if he's actually guru.
Dr. Patel: Guru, guru's śaktipad on his disciple comes from . . .
Prabhupāda: The same.
Dr. Patel: . . . either way. Where the śiṣya draws his power and guru gives it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but if he has no power, how he can give?
Dr. Patel: But . . . that is what I say. So we have to take guru as God.
Prabhupāda: So therefore guru as God, not distinction that guru is so much God, and he is so much God.
Dr. Patel: I don't say distinction. I . . .
Prabhupāda: No, you said that distinction of body, distinction . . .
Dr. Patel: I did not say that. You have to understood it differently.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not . . . it is the guru principle we are talking. That is about guru.
Dr. Patel: That is what I want to learn from you.
Prabhupāda: I am not guru. I am . . . I am . . . this is . . . the guru has no material body. Just like the statue is not material, similarly, guru's body is not material.
Dr. Patel: You say that though gurus may appear as material body, you are not to take it as a material body. Say that way. Because we are little . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Not to take it; it is actually. If it is material body, then how they are getting benefits, if it is a material body? The same example: if it is iron rod, how it is burning? It is fire. When there is burning, you must assume it is fire. Why do you take, "Oh, it is iron rod"? Phalena paricīyate. Phalena paricīyate. By the result you have to . . . therefore it is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. We, we have no direct contact with Bhagavān, but guru, being representative of Bhagavān, if we satisfy guru, then Bhagavān . . . identical. Therefore it is warned: vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ (Padma Purāṇa). Similarly, vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. "Here is a European Vaiṣṇava, he's Indian Vaiṣṇava, it is Brāhmin Vaiṣṇava and Śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. That is also, that is also offense.
Dr. Patel: That is wrong. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, to consider guru's body as material, that is also wrong.
Dr. Patel: I read somewhere that . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. Some . . .
Dr. Patel: . . . you have got to take guru as God from this point of view . . .
Prabhupāda: That . . .
Dr. Patel: . . . that he's ātmā. You are worshiping God . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is Māyāvāda.
Dr. Patel: Whatever vāda it is, I mean, let us go this . . .
Prabhupāda: The Māyāvāda says: "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is God within you." The Dr. Radhakrishnan said, the rascal, "Kṛṣṇa is within. The outside is material body." You have read that.