Prabhupāda: That is this Karāndhara's, he was in this position, but as soon as he misused it, immediately, Kṛṣṇa changed his position.
Rāmeśvara: He's so foolish, he blames...
Prabhupāda: That is our foolishness, that we cannot understand. That is our foolishness. How you can understand Kṛṣṇa's activities?
Rāmeśvara: That's the only answer.
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa is doing.... You are little independent, but He is fully independent. He knows everything. His independence is not under condition; your independence is under condition. If you misuse your independence, you'll suffer.
Rāmeśvara: His argument is that "I should never be allowed to misuse my independence."
Hari-śauri: There's no question of independence then.
Prabhupāda: That is not independence. Independence means you can use properly or improperly.
Rāmeśvara: He cannot understand that.
Prabhupāda: He wants to become a machine.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, he'd rather be a machine and be in Kṛṣṇa's service.
Prabhupāda: No, no, machine we are, but still there is independence. That means you are not absolutely independently, relatively. The state, you say we are American-independent. But that does not mean you can do whatever you like. As soon as you misuse, you are arrested, punished. Even the president is not independent. As soon as he misused his power, drag him, "Come out." What to speak of you.
Hari-śauri: That's like an impersonalist. He doesn't want any individual existence.
Prabhupāda: And he does not agree to be guided by the supreme controller. He does not agree that He is supreme controller. "I am everything." Therefore they are called mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha. He's being controlled. As soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. And he says "I am God." He's becoming old, and he says that "I am God." Why you are becoming old? God is always young.
Rāmeśvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of māyā.