Rāmeśvara: On every point he was defeated. Then this Reverend from the Lutheran Church, he said that we have invented this Kṛṣṇa religion. He said that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man who is a sex symbol, having so many women, gopīs, wives, and that we are saying that He is God. And this is heresy, he told us, a concoction. So he was defeated in different ways also. And at the end he had to admit that "The only way to find out is if you buy their books, so everyone go buy their books and see for yourself."
Prabhupāda: No, even taking it that Kṛṣṇa is after sex, then if sex is bad, then why you are after sex? The whole world is going on after sex. How you can deny it?
Rāmeśvara: He says that sex is not for God.
Prabhupāda: Why? If sex if not there in God, then how it comes? If God created everything, so God did not create sex?
Rāmeśvara: They think it means we are saying God has a material body, because they associate sex with material body.
Prabhupāda: Material body has no sex. A dead man does not enjoy sex. Do you think that a dead man enjoys sex? Suppose a beautiful girl-dead. Will you accept for sex? Then why do you take that sex is for the body? (train noises) "Sex if for the material body" is not the fact. When the soul is not there, where is sex?
Rāmeśvara: They consider sex to be his lower nature, animal nature.
Prabhupāda: No. Everything is..., becomes animal nature when it is perverted, when it is contaminated.
Rāmeśvara: They do not have any conception of the positive.
Rāmeśvara: They have no conception of pure life. So they think that it's just...
Prabhupāda: If they have no conception, we should give them conception that the body is dead, decomposed, then where is the sex? Where is the inclination? Similarly, the soul originally... As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, that "Everything is coming from Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now let us talk about Brahman." This is the meaning of athāto brahma-jijñāsāh. Then next verse is..., sūtra, code-janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). So unless sex comes from God... It may be perverted in the material world. That is another thing. But originally, pure sex must be there in God. Otherwise how it comes? Everything is emanating from the Supreme. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So how you can say there is no sex? Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura explains that janmādy asya, ādi-rasa. Ādi. Ādi-rasa means sex enjoyment. So he has explained that sex has come from... Because we have used perverted sex, we have got a very bad idea. But actually sex is there in the original. Otherwise there is no question of mādhurya-rasa. Hlādinī-śakti. There is no question of sex. You do not understand Absolute. The opposition party will inquire you, but sex is originally from Brahman. That is why...
Rāmeśvara: His argument was that when Kṛṣṇa was here, He was having friendship with the gopīs, who were married to other men.
Rāmeśvara: This is immoral.
Rāmeśvara: God never acts in an immoral way.
Prabhupāda: So that you have made, immoral. Because if He is the proprietor, then He is the proprietor of everything. You have accepted one woman who belongs to Kṛṣṇa. You are immoral. He is the original proprietor of everything, and everything belongs to Him, but He has given you one woman. Tena tyaktena. But no woman belongs to you. So you should stop connection with women. It is immoral. Otherwise every woman belongs to Kṛṣṇa. How you can use Kṛṣṇa's property? That is the disease, that we are trying to enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property. Kṛṣṇa's the proprietor. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva... (BG 5.29). He's the bhokta, He's the enjoyer. How you can enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property? That is immoral. And therefore you shall be punished. You are being punished. Because we are encroaching upon Kṛṣṇa's property illegally, therefore we are suffering. Kṛṣṇa is moral, you are utilizing unauthorized, using this material...
Rāmeśvara: His argument was that if God comes to this world and displays activities with women, it is natural that the followers of that religion will also want to have affairs with women.
Prabhupāda: No. Because they have not studied Kṛṣṇa, they misunderstand in that way. You are fond of woman. Kṛṣṇa comes to show you that in the Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka Vṛndāvana, there is woman, but not in this way. Originally there is. That is pure. So it requires education. You are not educated; you cannot talk. Now sex..., even in our material experience we find that by sex many great men has been found. So how you can accuse sex? You are talking. We should say, "You are a product of sex. So how do you say that sex is bad?"
Rāmeśvara: They say that when one man has many different women, then that is immoral.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer. Suppose you are a big man, but you are product of sex. Are you born differently or through sex? What is the answer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is not bad. When it is misused, that is the defect. Otherwise, sex is not...
Rāmeśvara: The Western conception is that one man can only have one woman.
Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop. (break) You should not any more use sex. But one who can produce better brains should have hundreds of times. You must know how to produce. That is Vedic civilization, dharmaḥ saṁskāra idam...(?) It is not a secrecy, how to produce brain. And because brain is not produced, therefore there is agitation, that they have no brain. They do not know the value of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have been produced like cats and dogs; therefore you cannot appreciate. Therefore you should stop. But one who has power to produce brain, to produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, they should be use. Foodstuff is forbidden for a person who cannot digest. One who can digest food, he must eat sumptuously. There is no restriction for him. Food is not bad. One who cannot digest, it is bad for him. This is the conclusion. What is food for one is poison for another. If you cannot use sex power how to use it for better purposes, you should not use sex. What is that verse that Kṛṣṇa says? Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya... (BG 14.4).
Hari-śauri: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.