Guest (1): Mahārāja is teaching—you asked his teaching—these things are the same really, I, things that he's told me. But he said that the whole universe was God, and that you should never hurt anyone, that you should serve...
Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?
Guest (1): I beg your pardon.
Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?
Guest (1): How can you serve the whole universe?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): You love the beings that you find yourself...
Prabhupāda: You love? To whom you love?
Guest (1): Whoever you're with.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (1): Whatever, whatever...
Prabhupāda: That is... Suppose you love me. You love the whole universe? Why this false impression?
Guest (1): Well certainly every being in the universe is a part of me.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct). You can place your love to a particular person or particular community.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean you love the whole universe?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Just like, just like nationalism. You are American?
Guest (1: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you have got your nationality. You love your country. But why you kill cows? Is that love of universe?
Guest (1): If I love America?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You love your men, but you kill your cows.
Guest (1): Acchā.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Guest (1): Through ignorance. Men...
Prabhupāda: Then how you love the whole universe, if you are in ignorance?
Guest (1): You do your best.
Prabhupāda: If you are ignorant, you do not know how to love.
Guest (1): That's true, of course. Ignorance is...
Prabhupāda: Then how do you speak of universal love? When you do not know how to love, how do you speak universe, big, big word. You do not know the art of love, and you are speaking universal love.
Guest (1): Well, certainly every...
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. First of all you say that you do not know how to love, and you are speaking of love the universe. It has already...
Guest (1): Certainly each being in the universe is a part of the universe...
Prabhupāda: But you cannot love each being. That is my point.
Devotee: They were hinting at it. She was saying if you love a pure being...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (1): You love the universe. Like you asked if I loved the universe.
Devotee: She said that if you love a pure being, then you can love the universe. She stated that if you love a pure being then you can love the universe.
Prabhupāda: Then there is impure being and pure being?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is it a fact?
Devotee: Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Then as soon as you say pure being, there is impure being.
Guest (1): It seems that way.
Guest (3): The soul isn't impure.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (3): The soul isn't impure. That's the only reality-purity of the soul.
Guest (1): You love God.
Prabhupāda: Purity of the soul, that means there are impurity of the soul.
Guest (1): It seems that way. It seems that there is...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): ...to my eyes.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to distinguish which is impure and which is pure.
Guest (1): That's very difficult.
Guest (3): I don't know what your saying.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (3): That there can be an impurity of the soul?
Guest (1): He was asking...
Prabhupāda: You said. You said purity of the soul. That means there must be the contradictory: impurity of soul. Then now we have to distinguish which is impure, which is pure.
Devotee: How can we distinguish?
Guest (1): In the absolute sense the soul is always pure, there is no impurity. But when man is in ignorance, as māyā... Śrī Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā, His power of delusion, He can...., He makes you think, He makes you see impurity. You see suffering in the world.
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the māyā comes?
Guest (1): From... I don't know, I can't answer that. It's, it's, it's God's nature, it's His līlā.
Guru dāsa: You stated that Kṛṣṇa makes us see impurity. Is this correct Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: That Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa makes us see impurity. He mentioned...
Guest (1): When a man is in ignorance.
Guru dāsa: Well which is first?
Guest (1): Which is first? Which, ignorance or what?
Guru dāsa: Does Kṛṣṇa make us in ignorance?
Guest (1): Well, He creates the whole universe and everything in it.
Guru dāsa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda maybe you can explain that.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guru dāsa: Does Kṛṣṇa makes us ignorant or are we ignorant?
Prabhupāda: We are.
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Guest (1): We are.
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As he said, when you forget, you are in ignorance.
Guest (1): Yes.
Guru dāsa: Can you explain that a little bit more for us?
Prabhupāda: He has already said. This forgetfulness is ignorance.
Guest (1): Yes, forgetfulness.
Prabhupāda: He knows that.
Guest (1): The sense of egoism, I and me and mine is ignorance. It's forgetting that God is everything and that you are nothing.
Prabhupāda: That God and you are different, because you forget God, (indistinct).
Guru dāsa: (indistinct) .... and we forget, so they must be different. We're impure and He's pure, so we're different.
Guest (1): Actually that's the best attitude.
Guru dāsa: So to understand how we're different means we're in knowledge, not ignorance. And then what to do with that understanding means that not seeming. You said it seems, but we're saying not seems...
Guest (1): That's because my, I've read some other things, some other types of thoughts. Now...
Prabhupāda: Now, (indistinct), the universe is God, then you are also God. Is it?
Guest (1): Yes, that follows.
Prabhupāda: Then, how you become ignorant?
Guest (1): That's a mystery. That's something I can't explain.
Prabhupāda: Everything is mystery.
Guest (1): Is that your... Is that a mystery?
Guru dāsa: No.
Guest (1): You understand. Well, that's good.
Guru dāsa: (indistinct). Śrīla Prabhupāda. He has made us, oṁ ajñāna timirāndasya, that by the torchlight of knowledge, he has opened my eyes. There's one Sanskrit poem,
- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana śalākayā
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī gurave namaḥ
By the torchlight of knowledge he has opened my darkened eyes.
Śyāmasundara: Everything is a mystery, but if someone who knows that mystery tells you the answer then you can know, then it ceases to be a mystery. But you can't find out on your own.
Guest (1): No, you can't.
Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda was the other day saying that we're the, we have the science of love of God. Many people say, the material scientists say perhaps or about 5,000 years ago such and such happened, but we say 485 years ago Lord Caitanya came. Five thousand years ago such and such happened. There are 8,400,000 species of life, not perhaps there are 8,400,000. So, this is very scientific, this relationship.
Prabhupāda: This is very difficult for the Māyāvādī philosophers to answer, that everyone is God but when God becomes ignorant? And what kind of God He is that He forgets and becomes ignorant? In māyā. So māyā becomes better than God? Is it not? Then what is the definition of God? So many things. But they cannot answer. Just like you said that when you become ignorant (indistinct) God, how it happens? (indistinct). God, how God can be ignorant? And how can God become forgetful? It is contradictory. Then what kind of God he is, that he becomes ignorant sometimes?