Prabhupāda: . . . forest, naked, renounced, eating fruits, but debauch number one. Markaṭa-vairāgya. There are so many vairāgīs. Markaṭa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei 'ta kali-celā: here is a disciple of Kali. Nāke tilaka galāi mālā: but has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck, but is kali-celā—number one disciple of Kali. You know this song? This is going on. Kali-celā. These persons who are committing sinful life—don't say anyone (laughs) or publish—there will be trouble. But that's a fact. Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they'll get next life a monkey, to remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. Because as soon as animal life is obtained, there is no more further record of the sinful life. The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account. For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be . . . that is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise, what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma . . . dhāma-aparādha. As dhāma-bhajana, if one undergoes devotional service out of Vṛndāvana and one executes devotional service in Vṛndāvana, that is hundred times better. Similarly, dhāma-aparādha also. This aparādha, when offense is committed outside Vṛndāvana, that is not so grievous as committing offense in Vṛndāvana. Dhāma-aparādha.
So the punishment is there, but the reward is also there. One life makes pardoned. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). Therefore a devotee in a reverse condition of life, he understands that "I am punished, little punished for my previous mischievous activities. So now I am becoming liberated." So he becomes more enthused to worship the Lord, that "You are finishing my sinful reaction of life with slight punishment. Thank you very much." This is devotee. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ.
Harikeśa: The dogs and the monkeys, they feel grateful?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when they come to sense they feel grateful. As dogs they cannot. As dog or monkey they cannot enhance their sinful activities. It is stopped. And whatever they do, that is not taken into account. And to suffer as dog or monkey means counteracting all previous sins. One punishment finished. Then he's fully liberated.
Harikeśa: I was always wondering that if somebody's desire is to commit sinful activities . . .
Prabhupāda: No, in Kali-yuga if you desire, it is not sinful. And act . . .
Harikeśa: If they desire to commit sinful activities, and before they became monkeys, but then they were doing it then. So whilst they're monkeys their desire must change. Or is it forced, that change forced upon them by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: But if desire changes, then where is punishment? If he's repentant, then there is no punishment.
Harikeśa: So before they go back to the spiritual world that desire must change.
Prabhupāda: This is forceful change.