Prabhupāda: As in the matter there is atom, similarly, spirit there is atom. Simply . . . now, both these, beginning from the supreme down to the atom, this is, they are expansion of different energy of Kṛṣṇa—either this material atom or the spiritual atom. Now, we are spiritual atom. We living entities, we are spiritual atoms, and by material atomic combination we have developed this body, although this material body is foreign to me.
Similarly, we can develop our spiritual body also in the spiritual world. Is it clear? Just like in the material world, in combination with matter we have developed this material body. Do you believe in this, that "I am spiritual atom, and I have developed this material body on the basis of spiritual atom?" It is a fact. It is a fact.
Just like in the mother's womb when the spiritual atom takes place, then it grows; it forms the material body. Without that spiritual atom, there cannot be any growth of body. Simply sex intercourse does not give guarantee of pregnancy. Unless that spiritual atom is there, the body does not grow. That is . . . we get information from authoritative śāstra.
So the whole material world is also grown up upon the spiritual existence. And our whole problem is that instead of having this material body, we have to get our spiritual body. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . that is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti.
Now, one who goes to Kṛṣṇa, do you mean to say: "One who goes to Kṛṣṇa vacant"? No. He goes to Kṛṣṇa with a body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has got body, so you also go before Him . . . just like you come to me with a body, I go to you with a body. You are a spiritual atom; I am also spiritual atom. Now I have developed this body; you have developed this body. Our meeting is between these two bodies. Similarly, when you go to Kṛṣṇa, mad dhāma, or Kṛṣṇa's dhāma, His abode, we go there with spiritual body.
Devotee: Does the spiritual world contain spatial relationships?
Devotee: Are things bounded by space in the spiritual world? In other words, is there spatial . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is only spiritual. As you have got a material space, similarly, there is spiritual space. As you have got material body, similarly, you have got spiritual body.
Janis: What is the difference between spiritual body and spiritual atoms?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Matter is not eternal, and spirit is eternal. Matter is full of ignorance, and spirit is full of knowledge. Matter is full of unpleasantness, and spirit is full of pleasure, sac-cid-ānanda. That is the difference between matter and spirit.
Janis: And what is the difference between spiritual atom and spiritual body? Or are they the same thing?
Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual atom . . . just like from the spiritual body you have developed this material body, similarly, from the spiritual atom you can develop your spiritual body. Tyaktvā deham. Tyaktvā deham means that giving up this material body, he develops this spiritual body and then goes to the kingdom of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. So when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, he goes in spiritual body. So there is potency of every living being. Just like he has got the potency of developing this material body, similarly, he has got the potency of developing spiritual body. Is it any difficulty to understand? It is clear.
So our problem is that we are suffering all kinds of miseries on account of this material body. Now, our business should be that we shall be cultured in Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that in next life will be my spiritual body. Then the solution of all problems solved. And so long we shall get material body repeatedly—just like we give up this dress and take another dress, similarly, we shall continue—then the four kinds of miseries, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), or at least these four kinds of miseries—the miseries of birth, the miseries of death and the miseries of old age and miseries of diseases—we have to suffer.
And as soon as you get spiritual body, all these miseries over. Because your body is no more subjected to birth and death, disease and old age. That life is eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. That you can get simply by studying the nature of Kṛṣṇa, transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa.
So we are hankering after so many things. We are taking the leadership of this leader, that leader, that leader just to relieve, get relief from our temporary misery. Our duty should be just to get rid of all miseries by developing that spiritual body. That should be the aim of life. And that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Any other question? Oh. (break)
Guest (2): I mean if it passed on. It's just a dim thought, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Your question is whether miseries are eternal or not.
Guest (2): Eternal force.
Prabhupāda: No. Miseries are not eternal. You can end your miseries. But if you want to end miseries materially, that is temporary. If you end your miseries spiritually, that is permanent. Just like in this world we are also trying to end our miseries. Suppose I am distressed or I am diseased. I go to hospital to end my miseries. But that misery are not permanent, er, that end of misery is not permanent—temporary. I can get again diseased. So long I have got this material body, that miseries can be repeated. That disease can be repeated. But if you get your spiritual body, then there is no more question of miseries.
Devotee: Is a human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to birth as a demigod?
Devotee: Is the human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to the birth as a demigod?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod is also like you. Just like in the human society there are difference of bodies: One body is richer than the other body. One body is happier than the other body in material estimation. Similarly, in the higher planets there are different bodies who are happier than persons who are living in this material planet, I mean to . . . this earthly planet. It is estimated that their standard of living is higher.
Just like in this planet there are different nations and different people, and they have got different standard of living also. Your European and American people, your standard of living better than our Indian people, so far material consideration is there. You have got very nice toilet room, but the Indians go to the field to evacuate. You see? So in that way this country is advantageous.
So as you find even in this planet there are different species of life, different species of humankind, and they have got different standards of living, similarly, in the higher planet there are also living entities just like us. They are also like man, but their position is different. Their bodily constitution is different. Their living standard is different.
But in spite of different being, they are subjected to the material laws, the birth, death, old age and diseases. They are not free from that. Nobody is free. Within this universe, anyone, either human being or demigod or animal or anyone, they are subjected to these four principles of miseries: birth, death and old age and disease. So when you get out of this material world, then you get free from this. Their duration of life may be greater than your duration of life, but death is sure.
You cannot get rid of death in higher planets. Death is there, sure. The duration of life . . . just like a man's duration of life than the duration of the life of a dog is greater, but both are subjected to the principle of death. That one cannot avoid. But if you want to avoid the subjugation under death, then you have to develop your spiritual body, and that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.