Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The spirit is supposed to be stronger than matter. The spirit is superior than matter. So it seems that... Well, what happens when the body dies? Is the spirit forced to leave or does it leave on its own accord?
Prabhupāda: No, it is by nature forced.
Madhudviṣa: But that is material.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Madhudviṣa: Isn't nature material?
Prabhupāda: Yes, material nature, yes.
Madhudviṣa: So how is material forcing something spiritual?
Prabhupāda: You have voluntarily accept her supremacy. Just like you have accepted some disease. So disease is forcing you. And if you cure, then it will not be able to force you. You infect some disease. Then you become forced by the disease to accept the miseries. But if you are not diseased, there is no question of force. If you become criminal, the police forces you. And if you are not criminal you have no business with the police. It is like this. Police control, controller—the controlling power upon me comes when I am criminal. Otherwise why police will control me? Therefore I voluntarily accept the control of police by my criminal desires. That is going on. That is material life.
Madhudviṣa: But would that mean that a person who is a pure devotee doesn't have to die?
Prabhupāda: No, die... Pure or nonpure, nobody dies.
Madhudviṣa: Though his material body dies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But a pure devotee goes back to home. There is no more material body. That is the... So we are advocating that you come to this stage where you will not to have accept this material body. Then you are really happy. And if you want to enjoy the flickering, illusory māyā, then you are subjected to the māyā. You are enjoying as American. Then you enjoy as a dog. That is māyā's control. But if you don't enjoy material things then you become purified. You come to the eternal life, back to home, back to Godhead. But they are not willing to give up this material enjoyment. That is the defect. So it requires education. It requires knowledge. It requires training.
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupāda: Then that spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and...
Prabhupāda: Better Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Devotee 8: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Better Gaura-Nitāi.
Devotee 8: So they have to do full Deity worship when they have these Deities?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 8: They have to do full Deity worship to have these Deities? Dress the Deities every day?
Prabhupāda: They are supposed to do so, but whether they are able to do so, that is the point. If you can worship properly, that's all right. But whether you are able to worship?
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, can a person go back to a spiritual planet without initiation?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee 7: Can a person go back to a spiritual planet...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init... Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn't go.
Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam. Who will train him? He is already fool, rascal. He must be trained up. So he must be trained up by the representative of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee 9: Is second initiation necessary, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second or first only.
Devotee 9: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are you saying? You said before there's no necessary for a spiritual master and now you...
Devotee 1: He said in the spiritual world there is no necessity.
Devotee 9: Oh, in the spiritual world.
Devotee 1: Everyone is in full knowledge. In the material world everyone is in darkness.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hari bol! Hari bol! (break)
Devotee 1: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it appears that there is a group of persons here in Australia who think, judging from the different questions that are being asked, they are thinking that it is not required to formally accept...
Prabhupāda: There are so many rascal swamis come. They say like that, "There is no need of guru."
Devotee 1: Yeah, right. They think that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart and you can accept initiation by that way.
Prabhupāda: You do not know where to find out Kṛṣṇa in the heart.