Rāmeśvara: So in the past, in the magazine, we have only shown people chanting if they were initiated devotees, shaven-headed, living in temple. And recently they have adopted to show people who have jobs outside the movement, and they are not brahmacārī or sannyāsī. They're also chanting, to give the public the idea that...
Prabhupāda: So that we are giving, the facility to chant and take prasādam, but at the same time, gradually, if chanting is effective, then next we have to make it in the process.
Brahmānanda: We want to bring them to the process.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ultimate. That is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī,
- yena tena prakāreṇa
- manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet
- sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur
- etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ
that "Somehow or other, bring him to chant Kṛṣṇa or to become little Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, when he's little purified, then the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ..." He's not rejecting the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ means regulative principles. It is not rejected, that... But when he's a little purified, this vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Just like one... First of all let him become rich, get some money. And then, when he has got money, he can keep some servant, some assistant, some secretaries, like that. First of all earn money.
Rāmeśvara: So one step at a time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But organized business means there must be so many men, secretary, manager. That is regulated. So in the beginning, "All right, bring some money somehow. Then I shall..." So you cannot reject this organization because he's chanting. Then what is the use of writing so many books, the nāma-aparādha and other discussions, if anyone can chant?
Rāmeśvara: So it definitely has to lead them to that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we must come to that point. In the beginning you may be very liberal: "All right, chant." We do like that, and I have done it. There is no regulation. But that does not..., that it should be neglected. He should be given affirmed, "By simply, whimsically chanting this..." No, that is not.
Hari-śauri: Niyamāgraha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't make it cheap. It has got a science. It has got a form.
Rāmeśvara: I've seen in some articles they have written to defend our society from the attack of deprogrammers, sometimes one argument they give is that meditation and chanting are being studied by scientists, and they are finding the effects to be good. Now...
Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. And if we do it properly it will be first class.
Rāmeśvara: Now, these scientists, they are studying Hare Kṛṣṇa meditation, but they're also studying some other processes which are not authorized. And they are...
Prabhupāda: That is the defect.
Rāmeśvara: And they're stating that in general, to meditate, to chant mantra, this is good, this is healthy for the mind.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you'll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That you cannot reject. "Because I am getting little heat, it is sufficient," that is sahajiyā.