Dr. John Mize: It's so puzzling, though, why I would spend eternity...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he requires that sattva-guṇa qualification.
Dr. John Mize: The what qualification?
Prabhupāda: That sattva-guṇa, goodness.
Dr. John Mize: I'm sorry...
Prabhupāda: Goodness.
Dr. John Mize: Goodness?
Bahulāśva: The mode of goodness.
Prabhupāda: Mode of goodness. Just like not that everyone can become a philosophy professor. It requires certain qualification. But everyone can become also. Everyone got the chance. Provided he is qualified, then he can take the post of a philosophy professor. Everyone has got the chance, not that you have got only the chance. Anyone has got the chance. But not that without having a certain qualification, one can become. Similarly, these thing will remain puzzling unless one comes to the qualification of goodness. Therefore we order our disciples, "Come to the platform of goodness. Give up all this nonsense habit." Then it will be possible.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Let him ask. (pause) Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you find out this verse, First Canto. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. So abhadreṣu, prāyeṣu. We are now covered with base qualities. So when these base qualities are finished, not altogether, almost finished, then one can come to the platform of sattva-guṇa.
Dr. John Mize: The platform of...?
Prabhupāda: Sattva-guṇa, goodness. In that platform one can understand very quickly. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is little successful because we are trying to bring the students on the platform of goodness. Therefore it is becoming little successful. If you keep them in the platform of ignorance and passion, then it will be difficult.
Dharmādhyakṣa:
- naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu
- nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā
- bhagavaty uttama-śloke
- bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī
- (SB 1.2.18)
Translation: By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.
Purport: Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.
The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.
Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter. You know him?
Dr. John Mize: No, I do not.
Prabhupāda: That "I am simply amazed how you have converted drug-addicted hippies to become servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." That is his puzzling. But the method is so nice that it automatically becomes. Therefore we are stressing on the method.
Dharmādhyakṣa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, without practice of the method, it's very difficult to understand the philosophical concepts.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Therefore it is said that without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody should touch Vedas. That is a... Without becoming brāhmaṇa...
- janmana jāyate śūdraḥ
- saṅskarād bhaved dvijaḥ
- veda-pathad bhaved vipro
- brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ
These are the different stages. Everyone is born śūdra. Śūdra means the life of lamentation. He does something and laments. This is śūdra. He does not know how to perform, but by whims he does something and laments later on. This is śūdra. And brāhmaṇa means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He never laments, neither hankers. That is brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). Find out this verse, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati.
Jayatīrtha: 18.54. I should read?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha:
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param
- (BG 18.54)
"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me."
Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?
Jayatīrtha: Samaḥ means equally disposed; sarveṣu means all; bhūteṣu means living entity. "He is equally disposed to every living entity."