Devotee (2): ...devotional service is transcendental to the modes of material nature. That's from the very moment that one first begins to render devotional service? Or gradually? From the first very moment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Devotee (2): ...of devotional service in the modes of material nature, there's no such thing.
Prabhupāda: No. Means if you do not follow the regulative principles, then it is mixed.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes devotees think that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Lord Kapila teaches there is devotional service in ignorance and in passion and in goodness, that that may mean your own disciples too. But then some devotees say "No, we're above that designation. It's not mixed devotional service, even though we're neophytes."
Prabhupāda: If you voluntarily do not follow, then you fall down. That is in ignorance.
Devotee (2): So where that is described in the Third Canto, Part Four, where it is described about devotional service in ignorance, passion, and goodness, and so forth, that has nothing to do with your disciples then?
Prabhupāda: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules.
Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is...
Prabhupāda: Then he is all right.
Devotee (2): ...above those lower levels.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why there is need of regulative principles? He is immediately liberated. If he thinks that "Because I have taken to, I am liberated," then why the rules and regulations?
Devotee (2): But as long as he follows the rules and regulations.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): (break) ...the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), immediately?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā it is said māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa (BG 14.26), unalloyed. Bhakti-yogena sevate, then he's liberated. If it is vyabhicāreṇa, sometimes falls down, sometimes..., then it is within sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. The word is māṁ ca yaḥ avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena, pure bhakti.
Hari-śauri: Without any falldown.
Devotee (2): Falldown means deviation from the orders of the spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is vyabhicāreṇa, that is not avyabhicāreṇa. If you are subjected to the attraction of māyā, that is vyabhicāreṇa.
Devotee (2): If somebody is following the instructions, but if there's attraction for māyā...
Prabhupāda: That cannot be. Maybe in the beginning due to past habits, but that must be nil very soon. Otherwise he's not following. Just like fan switched off may move for a little, but not that it will go on moving. Must stop. Switch is off. And if it is going on, then the switch is not yet off. (break)
Devotee (2): A devotee is sometimes subject to hankering or lamentation. That is material though, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): In other words, if, at that moment, if he desires something other than Kṛṣṇa, that's a material desire.
Prabhupāda: Then he has to learn it. So long one is not competent in that position, he's subjected, he may fall down.