Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause)
Madhudviṣa: So if there are any questions, you can raise your hand, and we will have questions now, if you like. No questions? This means that everyone agrees. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Full agreement. That's nice.
Guest (1): Your devotees say that you aim to get beyond the stage of material existence. I don't quite pick up what your process was for doing this, and could you tell me what the end result is once you do get beyond this.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Madhudviṣa: In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the process is to get beyond the disease of material existence. The first part of his question is how to do this, the second part of this question, "What is the end result after taking to the process?"
Prabhupāda: The process is to transfer yourself from material energy to spiritual energy. We are under energy. God has got two energies—material energy and spiritual energy. We are also energy. We are marginal energy. So marginal energy means we can remain under the material energy or on the spiritual energy, as we make our choice. Marginal... Just like on the beach you find sometimes on the border of the water, the water is covering the land, and sometimes the land is open. This is called marginal position. Similarly, we are marginal energy, or we can remain open also, in spiritual energy. So this process of, I mean to say, converting the material energy to spiritual energy is called bhakti-yoga. Just like this microphone. When it is used for some material purpose... Just like I am speaking. But sometimes the politicians or other parties or so many things—this microphone can be utilized for so many purposes. And it can be utilized also, God's purposes. I am speaking through this microphone about the message of God. So when it is utilized for God's purposes it is spiritual. And when it is utilized for our material purposes or sense gratification, this is material. Just like electricity. Electricity is one energy. It can be utilized for heating purpose and cooling purpose. Similarly, God's energy is one, but when it is utilized for sense gratification, that is called material energy, and when it is used for service of God, then it is called spiritual energy. So to transfer ourself from material energy to spiritual energy is to begin service of God. Anything engaged in the service of God, that is spiritual. This is a hall. It can be utilized for selling wine and it can be utilized for speaking about God. So the place is the same, but when it is utilized for God's purpose, then it is spiritual. And (if) it is utilized for my sense gratification, that is material. That requires little guidance. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God, but it becomes material and spiritual according to the purpose it is being utilized. So if you convert your life, everything for God-speaking for God, eating for God, sleeping for God, mating for God—then it is spiritualized. We have got four kinds of engagements: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Defending for God also. So actually everything belongs to God. Now we have to learn it, how to utilize it for God. That is our philosophy.
- prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
- hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ
- mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ
- phalgu vairāgyaḥ kathyate
To renounce this world is not very big thing because the world also, created by God. So instead of renouncing, if we utilize this God-created material world for God's service, then it is spiritual. Because originally it belongs to God. Originally it is spiritual. Therefore in the higher sense there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual because everything is coming, emanating from the Supreme Spirit. So we have to learn the art how to utilize everything for God. Just like we are. We are also living in the house. Without a house, where can you live? We are also human being. We cannot lie down on the street. We have got some house, some protection. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, and we are also mating, and we are also defending. But it is in a different way. These boys and girls, some of them are married, so they are also begetting children, and that means mating. But you see in our temple, even small child, he is offering obeisances, he is offering a flower, he is also chanting, he is also dancing. So to make sex for begetting such children, it is also God. But if we beget children like cats and dogs, then it is material. Because there is no God consciousness. So everything can be turned. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ: without any attachment. Just like these boys, they are collecting money, but not a single farthing they are spending for themselves, not a single farthing. Everything collected is being utilized for God's book publication, for propaganda, for distribution. They are not earning less. We collect some day one thousand dollars, and we are collecting all over the world about thirty thousand dollars. Yes. But not a single paisa for personal use. Everything is utilized for propagating God consciousness. So in this way everything can be utilized. After all, it is God's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Sarvam, whatever you see, that property belongs to God. We are falsely claiming, "It is my property." And that is māyā, illusion. Just like some portion of land, I am saying, "That is India," you are saying, "This is Australia," and they are saying, "It is England," but it is neither England nor Australia. It is all property of God. We have created man-made designation. So we have to give up this idea. The United Nations is there for the last twenty or thirty years. Before that, there was League of Nation. To unite. But how unity? "This portion is, sir, mine. This portion is mine." Why do they not agree that every part of this universe or this planet belongs to God? What is the difficulty? Actually it belongs to God, but they will not agree. They will fight, 'No, it is mine."
So these things have to be changed; then there will be God consciousness, and everything will be happy. To accept the real fact, so many big, big brains, politician, but they have no sense to understand that the whole earthly planet belongs to God. It is created by God. It is the property of God. Everything, what is there in this earthly planet, that belongs to God. We are sons of God. Let us enjoy God's property. The son has got right to use. But I should not encroach upon your property or my property, but everything belongs to... Just like in a family. Everything belongs to the father, and the children, whatever father gives, you eat and live peacefully. Similarly, there is immense prospect for produce food for the whole human race on this globe, earthly planet. But because somebody is encroaching God's property—"This is mine, sir. You cannot come here"—there is trouble. Otherwise... Just like your Australia. So much land, but you won't allow anybody to come. It is yours. Africa: so much land vacant. And "No, you cannot come. It is mine." And nobody is thinking that "It is God's and we are children of God. Let us produce." If we actually utilize the whole land of this earthly planet, we can produce ten times the necessity of the whole population. Where is the question of scarcity? But that understanding we haven't got. So unless you come to that, God consciousness, everything belongs to God... Just (like) the Communists, they are thinking that everything belongs to the state. But why don't you think everything belongs to God? Then the whole solution is there. But that they will not do. So therefore there is great necessity to propagate God consciousness to the people. It doesn't matter what religion is there. Religion is neither Christian religion... Religion is one. I have already explained. That is God consciousness, to abide by the orders of God. That is religion.