Devotee: Swamijī, I'm trying to... You said that, one time, that brahma-jyotir is like the pure light, and it's filtered in the material world through the modes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means three modes.
Devotee: So is that like...? Well... Because the modes don't exist in the spiritual world. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you go above the cloud, there is no cloud. That's all. But there is. In a certain portion of the sky, there is cloud. And that cloud is also not permanent. Sometimes sky is clear of all clouds, but sometimes cloud is there. The cloud is generating in the sky and it is vanquished in the sky. Similarly, this material world is sometimes being manifested and sometimes there is no manifestation, simply spiritual. Spiritual is always eternal. The sky, sunshine, is always eternal. Take this crude example. But the cloud is not eternal. It comes and goes, although cloud is a product of the same sunshine. Cloud is not independent. By interaction of sunshine, there is cloud, and that cloud is... There is no cloud. Similarly, this material world is just like cloud. It appears. It acts. When there is cloud, there is torrents of rain. Oh, there are so many productions on account of rain. Everything becomes green. So we give so much importance to the cloud, and it is important also, but it is temporary. As soon as the cloud is over, the greenness is gone. There is no rain. Nothing, nothing. And when the sky is clear, you'll see, "Oh, where is cloud? Where is cloud?" Similarly, this māyā means it appears like the cloud, and it disappears like the cloud, but the eternal brahma-jyotir remains.