Guest (3) (Indian man): What is the purpose of Lord for creating human life or animal life or so many things? Why...?
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
So according to your culture, mentality, your condition of life will be at the end of your life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). The whole life, as we have thought, as we have absorbed in thought, the same mentality will be concentrated at the time of your death. So, a god's mentality, or dog's mentality or hog's mentality, or... There are so many kinds of. So you'll get next body according to that mentality.
Guest (2): Yes. Can you scientifically prove this, sir? I mean is it purely a matter of belief or...
Prabhupāda: This is science. Our science is perfect science. Because we are receiving knowledge from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. And the so-called science is imperfect because the knowledge is received from imperfect person. However great scientist you may be, you have to admit that your senses are imperfect.
Guest (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So imperfect senses can give imperfect knowledge. That is not scientific knowledge. What you are thinking scientific knowledge, that is bogus. Because the man who has given that knowledge, he's imperfect. How you can expect perfect knowledge from the imperfect person?
Guest (2): It's a question of degree.
Prabhupāda: Now, degree may be, but ultimately, if you are unable to give perfect knowledge, then what is the use of taking knowledge from you?
Guest (2): Yes, I accept that view. But how do you prove that a man...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.
Guest (2): So the question of belief comes first.
Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact.
Guest (2): Yes, but if you say fact, how do you prove?
Prabhupāda: This is proof, Kṛṣṇa says.
Guest (2): It has been said by Kṛṣṇa. Yes, but...,
Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side. Yathā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, as there is the soul, there is the soul, asmin dehe, and he's having different types of bodies, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. He's changing body from childhood, boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to another state. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Where is the illogical presentation? This is scientific. For an intelligent man, this is scientific. And if he's still dull-headed, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa gives example. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As the soul is changing body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, like that. Similarly, after finishing this body, it may be invisible to you, but the subtle body is there. We have got two kinds of bodies. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). This material, eight kinds of materials—earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, ego. So when your body of earth, water, fire, air... Now in the... Now here is a medical man. He knows about this body made of earth, water, fire, air. But he does not know, perhaps, the body made of mind, intelligence and ego. Do you think so? That there is another body made of mind, intelligence and ego?
Guest (2): Not, not in that sense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind is there. Everyone knows, you have got mind, I have got mind. But can you see the mind? Can you see the intelligence?
Guest (1): These are something abstract, you know.
Prabhupāda: No, not abstract. These are material. You have no eyes to see.
Guest (1): Well, at present, we can, we have got three different methods of studying intelligence starting from six months onward up to the adult.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you accept. That is my point. Now you are studying, you accept. That means you accept there is intelligence. So besides this material body, gross material body, there is a subtle body. Subtle body. Just like besides your coat, there is a shirt, or there is a ganjee (?). Similarly, the soul is covered by the subtle body and the gross body. What is known as death, that is annihilation of the gross body. The subtle body remains there. And the subtle body carries him as he desires. The subtle body carries him to a place where he can again grow another material body according to the desire of the mind.
Guest (1): You mean the subtle body or the soul, the same thing?
Prabhupāda: No, soul is different. Soul is different. Soul is finer than intelligence. These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhir
- yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
- (BG 3.42)
First of all, gross understanding. This body means the senses. Indriyāṇi. Those who are animals, they are thinking this is all. But they do not understand that these indriyas are being controlled by the mind. If one's mind is, what is called, distorted, then the indriyas cannot work. That is madman. You try to cure the mental disease just to bring him in proper position to control the senses. Otherwise, he does not know how to control the senses. Therefore the controller of the senses is the mind. And above the mind there is intelligence. And above the intelligence there is soul. So we cannot see even the mind, intelligence and ego. And how we can see the soul? The soul has got his magnitude. And without understanding, without education about the soul, about the spirit soul, any other understanding, that is animal understanding. (pause) Give him prasāda.