Hṛdayānanda: "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. So the angels—Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva—they are offering their obeisances, and these rascals are claiming, "I am God." How great rascals they are. Śiva-viriñci-nutam (SB 11.5.33). Śiva-viriñci-nutam. Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they are offering their respects, and these things are: "I am equal with God." This Māyāvāda philosophy. Mūḍhas.
Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that tendency to be puffed up seems to be so strong, as soon as they get just a little bit of so-called qualification, then they . . . Everyone is becoming puffed up, even great personalities like Lord Indra and Lord Brahmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dayānanda: What to speak of all the . . .
Prabhupāda: Lord Brahmā is also one of the living entities.
Dayānanda: So how is it possible that . . . We're so insignificant, but at the same time we become so puffed up. How is it possible for us . . .?
Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness, that you are nothing; you are thinking very big. That is material consciousness. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll simply think, "Kṛṣṇa is great; we are nothing, insignificant." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long you think that you are independent of Kṛṣṇa—you are also another Kṛṣṇa—then you are fool, rascal. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25).
Hṛdayānanda: That's our madness.
Prabhupāda: Madness. The whole world is going on on this foolish understanding. Therefore they have been described, mūḍha, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "There is no God, there is no Kṛṣṇa. It may be He is impersonal, there is no personality, and I am equal to Him"—these are all rascals, fools.
Dayānanda: So actually there is no way to become detached . . .
Prabhupāda: The only way is that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Dayānanda: . . .except through Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante (BG 7.14). You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and everything will be clear, just like as soon as the sun rises, everything is clear, no covering. That is our propaganda, that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious; then you become fully aware of everything. Otherwise you remain rascal, fools, gādhā, asses. If you prefer to remain asses, you can do so, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We must preach real, reality.
Dayānanda: Even the jñānīs and yogīs become . . .
Prabhupāda: What is these jñānīs? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore so-called jñānīs, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Then he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare.
Dayānanda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktābhāsa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Ābhāsa means a simple, a little light.