Expressions researched:
"writings"
Allen Ginsberg: Beautiful. It's very industrious. It's marvelous.
Prabhupāda: Next book is coming, Nectar of Devotion.
Allen Ginsberg: What will that be, your own writings?
Prabhupāda: No, it is the authorized translation of Rūpa Gosvāmī's book, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu.
Allen Ginsberg: Whose...?
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī, Lord Caitanya's principal disciple.
Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he gave us only eight verses, Śikṣāṣṭaka. But our Gosvāmīs, they have written volumes of books on that eight verses. But there is no difference of the writings of the Gosvāmīs and the original eight verses. That is not very important thing.
Guest (1): One more, sir. Lord Kṛṣṇa has never asked Arjuna to sit and do bhajana. He said, uttiṣṭha mām anusmara yuddhya: (BG 8.7) "Get up and fight! And fight! And fight! That fight, that is your right." I'll fight. That is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So fight with whom?
Guest (1): "Fight with your enemy."
Prabhupāda: Who is your enemy?
Guest (1): Even physical, bodily, whatever it is, whatever it is, but you must know who your enemies are. Your enemy may be my friend. (part indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That's nice proposal. Unless you find an enemy, how you can fight? So of course, we do not say... We Vaiṣṇavas do not say that there is no need of fighting. We never say. When there is need of fighting we must fight. Rather, somebody in New York, some Goldsmith, he was that, "Why Kṛṣṇa is advising Arjuna to fight, to become violent?" So somebody protests like that. But there is no meaning of protesting against the action of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our view. So we Vaiṣṇavas, we are chanting. It does not mean that when there is need of fighting with avaiṣṇava we shall lack in strength. We can fight. One gentleman inquired from me that "Vaiṣṇavism makes one dull. He cannot act." And, "No. You have not seen a Vaiṣṇava." In the two fightings, great fighting, the Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata, the hero was Hanuman and Arjuna, and they fought.
Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight, a little bit later, to, to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit—and I have not read much of course—but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings and, you know, your magazine or your publications...
Prabhupāda: I may correct here, that it is not my belief.
Interviewer: Well in the, as you interpret it your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...
Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.
Interviewer: Yes, but more, more emphasis on that relationship than on the relationship between one individual and another individual. Am I right in that?
Prabhupāda: No. We have to establish first of all our lost relationship with God. You see? Then we can understand what is the relationship between one individual to another. If the central point is missing, then there is practically no relationship. Just like you are American and another is American, both of you, you feel American nationality because the center is America. So unless you understand God, you cannot understand "What I am." Neither I can understand what you are. So I have..., we have to first of all reestablish our lost relationship with God, then we can establish, talk of universal brotherhood. Otherwise there will be discrimination. Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect of knowledge. There is no God consciousness; therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, in other places also, the definition of sādhu is there. Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful. The same man who is torturing him, torturing him, he is trying to convince him about Kṛṣṇa. That means very merciful. He's not rejecting. Although he's torturing him, but he's trying to convince him, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore kāruṇikāḥ. And he is not friend of any particular society or man. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. He is well-wisher of all living entities. It doesn't matter whether he's Indian, American, or black and white. No, no conception. Or even human being or animal. He is kind to everyone, friend, well-wisher of everyone. Ajāta-śatravaḥ. He does not create any enemies. Such... These are the qualifications of sādhu. Śāstra means the transcendental literature, not ordinary writings. That is śāstra. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra, Veda is śāstra, or Bible, śāstra. Scripture means given by God or His authorized representative. That is śāstra. So sādhu-śāstra-guru. And guru means who is completely devotee of Kṛṣṇa without any material motives. This is sādhu-śāstra-guru. Anyābhilāṣitāśūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). (baby crying in background)
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that, you were lecturing that, that unless one performs the proper saṁskāras for the children, they will become degraded. They will not follow the regulative principles and such... They become unwanted population?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world we have got so many obligations.
Paramahaṁsa: For example, in devotee families, if we perform the proper principles in raising children...
Prabhupāda: No, your, your, your function is very simple. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and train your children in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.
Sir Alistair Hardy: (Break) ...Tagore thought of in India today. I've always admired Rabindranath Tagore's very much, his poetic writings. Do people in India think much of him today?
Prabhupāda: What about that?
Revatīnandana: Rabindranath Tagore.
Haṁsadūta : If his writings are highly considered by people in India?
Prabhupāda: No, not at all.
Sir Alistair Hardy: Not at all. No.
Prabhupāda: What is his writings? So many speculation. That's all. But it has got little similarity to Vaiṣṇavism. His Gītāñjali...
Sir Alistair Hardy: He had a great reputation in the western world.
Prabhupāda: But his literatures are not read by our... A section.
Revatīnandana: Mostly in Bengal. And because he was accepted in the West, therefore they are very proud of it. But otherwise...
Prabhupāda: The Russians read. I have heard that in your Oxford University there is study of Rabindranath's books? They study?
Prabhupāda: Improve... Major portion is stated like that. But there is always light and darkness. Always. So the light party will be also there. This is the only, that take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, it is an ocean of faults. Doṣa-nidhi. Nidhi means ocean, and doṣa means faults. But there is one opportunity. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Very great profit. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name and becoming Kṛṣṇa con..., one shall be freed from all these calamities and he'll go back to home, back to Godhead. Simply by this. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. This very word is used. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So this is the only shelter. If people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be saved from all the calamities of this age. Otherwise, there is no other... Now they are going to the forest, the hippies. Eh? Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. Giri-kānanam means to the forests, to the hills. They'll go. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇām. Dāra means wife, and draviṇā means money. So they'll be separated from wife and money, and they'll go to the forest and hills, being disappointed. This is happening already. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam.
Śyāmasundara: Does this correspond, Mr. Toynbee, with your view of the future history?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the future history. You can predict in your writings. Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: With more people in politics in India, are they able to keep the Vedic ideal? Or...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. They have given up.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.
Prabhupāda: The politicians, they (say that) "These books are useless. Throw them in the water." They say like that publicly. They are not interested. Rather, this movement, as I have now began with my disciples, European, American boys, they're... They are not very satisfied, the present politicians. They are not very satisfied. They don't want. Everywhere this, more or less the same mentality, but it is our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa to push on this movement. So we are doing, and we are getting response. It is not without response. It will increase. That is also stated, that for ten thousand years Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will increase. Yes.
Umāpati: Well, Professor Scharfe is interested in your writings, and I don't know the councilman's motives. He just sent word to me that he would like to meet with you.
Prabhupāda: We welcome any respectable gentleman. We have to go this way?
Karandhara: Uh, yeah, Prabhupāda, we can go this way, through here. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: The scientists will never give up.
Prabhupāda: They are trying.
Hṛdayānanda: They are like Jarāsandha. They come back every day on your walk.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have any specific reference for acintya in the Vedic reference?
Prabhupāda: Acintya, acintya, yes, acintya. Acintya potency, even you have got acintya potency. That I have already explained. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is pinch of acintya, inconceivable potency, in us also. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Umāpati: I was reading the writings of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in Jaiva Dharma.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Umāpati: And he is explaining the word "śraddhā," and he defines it in there as the tendency of the mind towards devotion without regard to jñāna or karma.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: Śraddhā.
Umāpati: Śraddhā. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.
Prabhupāda: What is that interpretation?
Umāpati: Could you elaborate on the definition of śraddhā?
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm conviction. That is śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa's words, that is śraddhā.
Umāpati: (break) ...I have, I have been reading some of the writings of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and I have come to an understanding from what I have read that there are, there is, there is a thing called tendency and, and... Well, in other words, the Vedas will teach a man if he is incapable of not killing, of, incapable of not killing, if he's addicted to meat-eating, that there are rules whereby he can eat meat and thereby, under prescribed rules found in the Vedas. And thereby, his pious activity, he can raise to a higher level of understanding. And then there are rules that says, "Thou shalt not eat meat," and therefore one is eligible and must follow those restrictions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the beginning...
Umāpati: In the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Just like loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantoḥ. There is tendency for eating meat. Therefore Vedas says that "You can eat meat, but..." Not only Vedas, in other scriptures also. The Jews also say. The Mohammedans also say that you can kill in the synagogue or in the, what is called, mosque, one animal. But not slaughterhouse. No religion prescribes that you open slaughterhouse. No.
Prabhupāda: We understand from the writings, not from the fossils and bones. The bones and fossils are already finished, but they kept their writing.
Bali Mardana: Only the uncivilized people were buried.
Prabhupāda: Suppose I am writing books. In future if you could not find my bones and fossils, but the books will prove what I was. So we have got the books. That is the real bones and fossils.
Bali Mardana: They try to disprove...
Prabhupāda: They cannot find out bones and fossils of Kṛṣṇa. Now, why they accept?
Satsvarūpa: Nobody agreed... (tape garbled)
Prabhupāda: You have to accept authority... (break) ...authority of yourself, we have got authority also. We have got authority. We have got our books... (break) ...that Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years but you say they do not believe in... (break) ...these rascals.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now Americans are seriously considering about this movement. There are so many writings.
Dr. Patel: You are... As a matter of fact, you are improving their lot. The present boys, in American universities, they are all LSD smokers. The other day I said that, and that boy said that LSD went from India and so I became violent. Forgive me. I felt sorry later on. Because I should not have expressed my temper before you...
Prabhupāda: No, the...
Dr. Patel: But I held in a little more temper than that also. When somebody tells a wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: No, this gañjā, gañjā went from here.
Dr. Patel: That, because it is produced in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they made a chemical composition of gañjā. That is LSD.
Dr. Patel: No, no. LSD is not chemical. It is a synthetic.
Prabhupāda: Therefore similar effect. Because they are scientific. So instead of importing gañjā from India, they invented some chemical composition...
Guest: And uh, then he started to say, "Well if they believe in an external God," or something like that, "then it is heretical." I says, "But nevertheless," I says, "Uh, like in the writings of, say, Meister Eckhart or the different mystics, they all seem to describe their experience in pretty much similar terms." So I said, I asked him, "Does this mean that the experience is different or not?" So then he argued, he finally says.... Well, he didn't say it directly, but what he said is that if, if you want to get the experience of touching something to find out what hot is, he says you may have different motive. Like some people may do it because it's pretty, some out of curiosity or different motive. In other words, he admitted that the experience finally was the same, even though the approach was different.
Prabhupāda: If the approach is different, suppose in the approach is to fire, the approach may be different, but heat or light is there. So why do they approach fire? But if you are approaching something else, how the same experience is there?
Guest: Well...
Prabhupāda: Say we approach fire, then approach may be a different way, but the goal, it is fire, you will experience heat and light.
Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction. So to the mass of people, we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. But when there are learned scholars, elevated person, then we present about our philosophy. And we have got so many writings. Both ways: the mass and the class, or the scholars. We are prepared to meet everyone. Our mission is to make everyone, no distinction, that "This class should be given preference, and that should be neglected." No. We have got instrument to awaken everyone. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, we can enthuse thousands and thousands of men to join us. And those who are advanced in philosophy and religious system, we have got these books. So we do not neglect anyone. We approach everyone.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Well, thank you for your explanations.
Prabhupāda: And it is being effective. It is being effective. In our group we find Africans, Americans, Indians, Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, Chinese, everyone.
Monsignor Verrozano: And what concern the Buddhist countries where God is not so, at least, the prayers or the name of God is not so well known. I am just coming from Bangkok where we had a meeting with Buddhist monks of the (indistinct), and have you also some movement, some kind of action to spread love of God to (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Well, Buddhists, they do not believe in God.
Cardinal and Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.
Dr. Harrap: And you're interpreting this in terms of modern day living to a large extent in some of your writings, and, of course, some of your disciples writings, as in this book.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Could I borrow this for a moment? Thanks.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Guest (2): We were very interested in your comments on the dairy industry in particular. Dr. Harrap is in charge of the dairy research. How do you relate your strong interest in dairy products to modern thinking on cholestrol and similar problems? This doesn't disturb you?
Satsvarūpa: There are modern theories that milk is actually harmful.
Dr. Harrap: Well, that butter...
Dr. Muncing: The milkfat and...
Dr. Harrap: Yes, milkfat.
Prabhupāda: Milk is harmful? How it is harmful? If it is harmful why you are giving milk to the child?
Dr. Harrap: I think you could add to that, Roy, that an attempt to grow grain in large areas of Australia would significantly damage the ecology, and from reading your writings, I suspect that this would be completely unacceptable to your way of thinking, that one doesn't disturb the natural life cycles of innumerable creatures in order to grow more grain because the terrain is just not suited to the grain growing.
Prabhupāda: The land is not suitable?
Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts. The gentleman's contention is that if we try to grow grains in a semi-desert area it would throw off the balance of the natural, the natural pulse of the earth, let us say, and it would cause havoc in other fields. One of the basic things that our spiritual master is putting forward is that if we put an emphasis on producing food grains and milk and vegetables to live on, concentrating on those points instead of complicating our lives with great industries for cosmetics and film industries and things that are really not essential to us... There's people that don't have the essentials and other people who have all the trappings of the modern technological science. Our spiritual master's contention is that real happiness lies in simple living and high thinking and this is the education that we're trying to put forward.
Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?
Guests: Yes, yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.
Dr. Muncing: I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch.
Guest (1): I would like to ask about the writings and where they came from and so on, but you go first.
Guest (2): You should read the book. I have a very good friend, a brāhmaṇa friend in the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. How do you view the development of the potential for nuclear explosions in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes, from the revealed scripture we can understand from... You have got the first part of Bhāgavatam?
Cāru: Yes, right here.
Prabhupāda: The Aśvatthāmā released the brahmāstra?
Satsvarūpa: That's in three I think.
Prabhupāda: Similar nuclear weapon was there. It was called brahmāstra. So when this brahmāstra was released by one Aśvatthāmā, the same symptom of nuclear weapon... Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa mahā bāho. That is...
Satsvarūpa: We don't have that volume.
Prabhupāda: Why you are lacking? You have got enough books. I inquired from you in the morning. You said, "Yes, we have got enough stock."
Prabhupāda: That is the only business of human being, to know the Absolute Truth, God. That is the only business. Otherwise what is the difference between cats and dogs and human being? They do not care to know what is God. So if human being also in the same status, doesn't care to know what is God, then what is the difference between dogs and human being?
Prof. Hopkins: People, various people read your writings, your commentaries, and they, they react to them sometimes with reservation because they see your writings as dogmatic.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prof. Hopkins: They see your writings... Some people see your writings as dogmatic.
Prabhupāda: Or "He is dogmatic." (laughter)
Prof. Hopkins: They say, "He is dogmatic," okay. Do you feel that you are dogmatic or...
Prabhupāda: No. You find out any passage in my book dogmatic, then you say dogmatic. Any page you open, where is dogmatic?
Prof. Hopkins: Well, dogmatic, to call someone else dogmatic means to start with that you don't agree with what they are saying. If I agree with you and you...
Prabhupāda: No, you have to agree. You open any passage of my book.
Dr. Patel: And then you become his śiṣya, that's all, indirect śiṣya. For the last two year I have been only reading all the great writings of Vaiṣṇava saints and Vaiṣṇava ācāryas because I read a lot of Śaṅkarācārya and others, and even, even post—what do you call—Buddhist philosophy, different lines, half a dozen of them. When I read the Vaiṣṇavas' teaching I think that.... Personally, you see, there are so many children, but your own son, you say, "This is my son." The personal relationship, when established, takes you far ahead psychologically. Am I right, sir? That is how personal God...
Prabhupāda: And if you take care of your own son, nobody will criticize you that "Why are you taking care of your own son, not others? Nobody will.... That is natural. That is explained in the Bhagavad.... Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu
(BG 9.29). He is equal to everyone. But one who is a devotee, "I take special care."
Dr. Patel: "He is in Me, and I am in him."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is why all the great bhaktas, all the great, I mean, say, Narsi Meta(?) or Mirabai, they have worshiped personal God and merged in personal God in toto. Their, that what we call that ego is washed away by the sacred, I mean, this thing of God. Our impersonal philosophers are there, but they are not so well known. That is why he said that personal God and, I mean, worshiping personal God, you are immediately raised to that status from where you will be able to get jñāna.
Prabhupāda: (break) There was one teacher in my school, he used to say that "One who is slow to understand, he is slow to forget also."
Yaśodānandana: There is actual proof, Prabhupāda, that when these scientists and great, so-called poets, when they die, refusing to admit the authority of God, they die a very terrible death. Just like in France there used to be a great philosopher named Voltaire, and at the end of his life, because his whole writings and existence he tried to disprove the existence of God, he went insane, and he was eating his own stool and urine. And a priest came to him and said, "Why don't you accept the existence of God? You have become such great poet." He said, "I will never accept the existence of God." But he became to the point where he was eating his own stool and urine.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Yaśodānandana: This has been recorded...
Prabhupāda: This is the punishment, yes. Punishment there is always. But they are so stubborn fools still.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Prabhupāda, the one great brain researcher, he spent nineteen years searching for the memory in the brain.
Prabhupāda: There is a story that two friends talking that, on the point that "How this was cut, separated?" So one friend said, "It is by knife." And the other friend said, "No, it was by scissor." So they went on.... One said, "No! It is knife." He said, "No! It is scissor." So the knife man was very strong. So he took him to the water, that "You say it is knife. Otherwise I shall drown you." (laughter) So he said, "I'll never say." Then he said.... When he was drowning, he was doing like this, (Prabhupāda gesticulates) (laughter) "Scissor, scissor." When he was actually drowned and he had no other means to say, then he was doing like this: "It is scissor. It is scissor." This is their argument. However punished they may be, they'll do this.
Richard: Okay, are you familiar with the writings of Descartes?
Prabhupāda: We don't read anyone's books except Bhagavad-gītā.
Richard: Oh, I thought you said you studied other philosophies.
Prabhupāda: Study, there are so many books we study.
Richard: Right, okay, well anyway, there was a French philosopher in the 1700's named Rene Descartes, and his...
Prabhupāda: I think we have discussed this philosopher.
Richard: You have discussed him? All right, one of the things he said was that.... Oh, I'm sorry, it's Pascal. Anyway, same thing practically. Ah, he said that as far as an afterlife goes, as far as proving it, it's impossible to prove it.
Prabhupāda: Why impossible? He does not know.
Richard: Okay.
Prabhupāda: We can prove immediately.
Scheverman: So this is a collection of the ancient writings as well as modern writings that reflect the way of life.
Prabhupāda: This is the summary of all Vedic literature.
Kern: Of what kind of literature?
Prabhupāda: Vedic.
Scheverman: Vedic, oh, yeah.
Rakṣaṇa: Vedas means knowledge.
Scheverman: This comes out of a Hindu record.
Prabhupāda: So, here in this Bhagavad-gītā, it is ordered that the human society must be divided into four divisions, and they should cooperate for understanding God. Just like in our body there is the head, there is the arm, there is the belly and there is the leg. So they are all cooperating for maintaining the body. Although head is very important than the leg, but leg is also required. Simply head will not be able to keep the body in good condition.
Bhakta Gene: You didn't meet with him? He was supposedly the most prominent mystical writer within the Catholic Church in the past one hundred years. His writings gained tremendous prominence in the past..., oh, the past twenty-five years.
Prabhupāda: Prominence amongst whom?
Bhakta Gene: Uh, amongst Christians. And non-Christians as well. He made a trip to the East. He had an accident in the East and was electrocuted. Oh, this is some ten years ago now.
Jayādvaita: He wrote that original introduction for your first Bhagavad-gītā published by Macmillan.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bhakta Gene: Well, this raises a question in my mind, Your Grace. Within Christianity there has been a history of mysticism from 100 A.D. to the present. Now there have been some prominent mystics, a few prominent mystics, and a great many not so prominent. Now how do you classify these men, these Christian mystics, Protestant as well as Catholic?
Prabhupāda: It is some yogic mysticism. It has nothing to do with spiritual life. They want to see some miracles, generally, ordinary public. So this mystic power, show some miracles and make them astonished. That's all. It has nothing to do with spiritual life.
Bhakta Gene: Perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to truly devotional mystics, such as St. John of the Cross, St. Francis of Assisi.
Prabhupāda: If there is devotional service, where is the need of mysticism? There is no need. God is my master, I am His servant. Where there is necessity of this nonsense mysticism?
Dr. Sukla: Within one period, people who probably just had no good books to read, and they got some of his writings. I know my father brought some books and...
Prabhupāda: So where is your home?
Dr. Sukla: It's in Benares, Kāśī. So there were some books by Vivekananda, and he is emotionally against Vivekananda, so that's a little too much perhaps. So he brought those books so that I can read them, I was curious. And he said, "When you are through, give it to your cook." (laughter) That's the only functional use of those books.
Prabhupāda: For burning it in the fire?
Dr. Sukla: Yes, he said so that we can make our capatis, to have some use of those things. And Kṛṣṇa, of course, there's hardly a village in India where, whether knowingly or unknowingly, people are not aware what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: In India they know, everyone. They observe Janmāṣṭamī.
Dr. Sukla: Kṛṣṇa paraṁ bhajami. In India everybody knows Kṛṣṇa, even the illiterate person, but nobody knows Vivekananda. Only a few people, they started a Vedanta Society. Of course Veda is a very serious literature, it's not just anybody can get into that, it's a very, it's a disciplic...
Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumādbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). Very.... Nyāya-praṣṭhāna. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra. They accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya. But when the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You have no Vedānta-sūtra-bhāṣya, therefore you cannot be accepted as transcendental party," so Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana immediately gave Govinda-bhāṣya on Vedānta. Our Gosvāmīs, they did not write because they knew Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Sukla: Have the writings of Vidyāpati come to attention, and if they have...
Prabhupāda: That is very higher, not for ordinary persons. Vidyāpati's writing is meant for realized souls, not ordinary. Ordinary, they will take as love affairs between girls and boys. Therefore it is not for them. Those who are already advanced, liberated, then these love affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, they will be discussed.
Dr. Sukla: Is there any plan of bringing those things out, publishing them, his poems and translations?
Prabhupāda: It is not for ordinary. Cāṇḍīdāsa, Vidyāpati. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to discuss Jayadeva's books, Vidyāpati's books, very confidentially amongst a few devotees. Not publicly.
Dr. Sukla: So you think they might be misused.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being misused. They take Kṛṣṇa as debauch. They do not understand. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs, they are described in the Tenth Canto. That is also middle of Tenth Canto, and nine cantos required to understand Kṛṣṇa, beginning with janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So that is the Absolute Truth. These things should be discussed in the beginning. Then when one is fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with this material world, as Śaṅkarācārya said, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt, avyaktāt anna sambhava. This material world is a production... (break) It has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When it is nirmalam, then it is first-class. The first process is nirmalam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). This process is first-class. Not all of a sudden jump over. This literature, that is (indistinct), that should be kept in reserve for persons who are already liberated. Otherwise it will be misunderstood.
Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.
Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.
Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.
Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.
Cline Cross: I would say much the same as yours, from what I've seen in your writings—that there's an underlying truth behind all religion. Would you agree with that?
Prabhupāda: Religion, as it is explained in the dictionary, "accepting a supreme controller." Is it not? So do the people accept a supreme controller? Do they accept? There are so many system of religions, but do they actually know who is the supreme controller? That is my question. What do you think? Just like, this is British government, and we know that the Queen is the supreme controller. Similarly, of all creation, cosmic manifestation, there is a supreme controller, and who is that supreme controller? Do they know it? That is my question.
Cline Cross: I mean, what is your attitude towards Christianity?
Prabhupāda: Don't come to Christianity. I'm talking on religion, the science of religion. The religion... When we speak of religion, there is no question of Christianity or Muslim or Hindu. Just like when they speak of gold, gold is gold everywhere. Gold cannot be Muslim gold or Hindu gold or Christian gold. We are concerned with gold, not the country where the gold is produced. That is not very important thing. Whether it is gold, that is our business.
Cline Cross: I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.
Dr. Kneupper: Well, it's been most interesting to meet you and hear you. I... Unfortunately I have to go to Agra this evening. So I really want to thank you and I will remember this and I will read your writings and think very deeply on what you...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kneupper: ...said to me and (indistinct) this...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I recited also (indistinct). It is the real utilization of every education.
Dr. Kneupper: Right. But the Bhagavad-gītā is very wonder... It's... Since I first read it it's been one of my favorite...
Prabhupāda: You are reading?
Dr. Kneupper: Yes, I... I try to read it frequently, because it gives me some real spiritual...
Prabhupāda: And if you want to know further, you can write to me.
Dr. Kneupper: Good. I'll take back your blessing to Slippery Rock when I go back there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and there, so many old friends, you can offer them.
Dr. Kneupper: I will remember this. And I will read, look into your writings much more closely...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kneupper: ...when I get back. Could I ask you if you might sign... Put your name in... Autograph?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Kneupper: Could you do that please?
Prabhupāda: So, you can give him that book.
Devotees: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Would you like to read this book?
Dr. Kneupper: Yes, I will read that, yes.
Prabhupāda: So I'll sign in that book.
Dr. Kneupper: Okay, okay, fine. Yes, that would be good. Very good. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: Apparently he's not familiar with the Vedic writings. So...
Prabhupāda: So inform him.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. Anyway, the most significant thing is that it's been published in this journal which is usually for middle class, nothing controversial. And now they have published life after death. It shows that people are beginning to believe.
Prabhupāda: As they are reading our literatures.
Hari-śauri: As Kṛṣṇa consciousness spreads... Just like we see these different things happening in the world that are coming nearer to a religious way of life or a spiritual understanding, even though that may not be directly connected with our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, still, is that the cause, because there's an auspicious atmosphere that people are...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: ...able to come nearer to that spiritual goal?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is going on. That purifies.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has brought them here in Māyāpur. Previously they were advanced, all of you. You are simply born because the mission was to be started. Just like in Yadu-vaṁśa Kṛṣṇa ordered all the devotee demigods to "Go and take birth there to help Me." Similarly, you are also... You were born in Europe, America, to help this. Otherwise you were devotees in you past lives. I have explained that in my recent writings. The purport was mām eti: goes to Kṛṣṇa where His pastime is going on, and then they are transferred to the original. So all the devotees picked up and they were placed together where Kṛṣṇa is having His pastimes in either of these innumerable universes. He's going on. Just the moving... The sun is moving-little, little, little. So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes go on—this universe, that universe, that universe, that universe. In some universe He's present. In all universes present, that is called nitya-līlā. So those who are advanced, perfect devotees, first of all they are sent there and then, further trained up, they enter. Mām eti. Just like after passing the administration examination he's made one assistant of some magistrate, and then gradually he'll be promoted up to the high-court judge.
Hari-śauri: When we were in New York this last summer you said that the spiritual master also has associates who appear along with him to help him in his mission.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa wants His assistants; the spiritual master also requires assistant. Everything is going on under Kṛṣṇa's direct supervision. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).
Prabhupāda: He has not any new writings?(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had one, but I heard that they had some difficulty in preparing it. (indistinct) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the leaders agree, organize it. Then others take it. We can begin there this varṇāśrama program.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are you planning to go there, to Manipur?
Prabhupāda: I shall expect to go. It requires...
Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: No, on our part.
Hari-śauri: That's not... The traveling there is not the strain. It's doing the programs and seeing so many people. That's a big strain.
Prabhupāda: That is not... Strain is traveling.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is supreme. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Bhāgavata begins, namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Vāsudeva is Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your writings are all surcharged with Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Then everything will be... (break) ...brother's country, and there was a subway from Ceylon to Brazil. Still there is. Did you...? Do you know that?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, they have found gigantic tunnels in South America.
Prabhupāda: Rāmacandra was taken from here to there to be sacrificed before goddess Kālī.
Pañcadraviḍa: We've got about seventeen temples down there. In Central America.
Hṛdayānanda: There are more temples in Latin American than Europe. We also defeated them in book distribution.
Prabhupāda: The Mexicans are exactly like Indian.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he got a letter. Should I read it to Your Divine Grace? "Dear..." It's signed by Morarji Desai. "Dear Shree Jagat-guru Swami, I thank you for your letter of April 4th and am grateful to you for your good wishes. You have cited some very wise sūtras from our ancient writings. Although I have been called upon to shoulder heavy responsibilities, it has been my endeavor in the past and it will be so in future to see that there is no hiatus between my public and private life. This is what I have learned from Gandhiji, and I have thus saved my life from contradictions. Thank you once again for your kind sentiments. Yours sincerely..."
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Jagat-guru Swami wrote to me that he is continuing his correspondence with Morarji Desai.
Prabhupāda: Then don't continue much. Then it will be spoiled.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Yeah, I'm not doing it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is he writing at all to Morarji Desai?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. He's in England. He's independent, and I can't...
Prabhupāda: You can... One who... Don't.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He says you would make him listen to your writings. Sometimes you would write all night, I think he told me. I spoke to him on the phone when I was at Vele(?). He sends you his daṇḍavats. He says he's ready to move in when the Vṛndāvana gurukula is ready. He says he'll move to Vṛndāvana and do whatever you want him to do in the gurukula.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the pla... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."
Prabhupāda: Hm, Shivapuri.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...is best in Madhya Pradesh." He knew of it.
Prabhupāda: Forest and open place combined together becomes healthy. Besides that, in particular place the water is good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.
Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the... He says it will help its sales in America. Then this article...
Prabhupāda: It is very thoughtful article.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... This?
Prabhupāda: No. That you were reading.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, yeah. I don't want to have to make you hear the whole thing because there's not enough about us. But I can read a little bit of it to give an idea. "There are signs here and elsewhere across the country that the youth-oriented religious sects that sprang into existence a few years ago are gaining a foothold for an enduring future. The emergence of a wide assortment of spiritual movements, from Eastern religions to Jesus people..."
Prabhupāda: If we introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city, all other religions will be finished.
| Page Title: | Writings (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Nov, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=38, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 38 |