Gargamuni: Well, first we have to explain that Kṛṣṇa has a transcendental body. If they don't understand that, then how can we explain Kṛṣṇa's disappearance?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am asking how would you explain. The answer is that we living entities, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We do not die, na jāyate na mriyate vā, kadācit, at any time. We do not take birth; we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even by destruction of this body, we do not die. You know this? So we are part and parcel. If we are eternal, how Kṛṣṇa can be...? Hm? If my finger is eternal, how the body is not eternal? How the body can be dead? So why did He die like that, appearing as dead? That is His līlā. That He has, so many līlās. So why this līlā? Just to cheat you. You are atheist, and to keep you atheist forever, so that in your life after life you'll not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore He is doing, just to cheat you. Because you are atheist, you cannot think of Kṛṣṇa properly. To keep you in darkness forever He manifests this līlā.
Hari-śauri: But why would God want to keep the living entities in darkness?
Prabhupāda: Because you want to be. You are such a rascal. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpya (BG 16.20). This envious atheist class life after life will not be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. For this purpose... Find out that verse.
Rāmeśvara: This is very good, because I know this question will come up now.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They will find out that there is an Indian...
Prabhupāda: The atheist class...
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They'll find out, "Oh, it says God died. What is this?" Then they'll challenge, that "This is not God. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Hari-śauri:
- āsurīṁ yonim āpannā
- mūḍhā janmani janmani
- mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
- tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim
- (BG 16.20)
"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."
Prabhupāda: Just to keep you everlastingly in darkness He shows this līlā, that "See? I am dying. You are right that I am a man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). "You rascal, mūḍha, you remain in that condition." This is explanation. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa can die? We do not die, His part and parcel. And how He can die?
Gargamuni: Well, they will try and separate Kṛṣṇa from His soul, His body from His soul.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you do, that is for you. It is not Kṛṣṇa's actual position. It is for you: "Yes. You see? I am dying." Just like sometimes Hindu-Muslim riot, many Deities of Kṛṣṇa, all broken. So the Muhammadans, they think, "Now Hindu's Deity I have broken. Finished."
Hari-śauri: "God is dead."
Prabhupāda: "God is dead." So it is like that. By breaking the Deity, he thinks that "Now Hindu's Kṛṣṇa is dead now, finished. We have finished." (laughs) But does it mean that he has broken the Deity, therefore Kṛṣṇa is finished? But he thinks like that, "Yes, we have finished the Hindu Deity." So that he will continue his foolishness that "These people worship idol and we can break that, finish." This is the answer.
Rāmeśvara: This will be very difficult for them to understand.
Prabhupāda: So how they will understand, atheist?
Rāmeśvara: They cannot understand anything.
Prabhupāda: They cannot understand. So keep them in darkness. This is the only way. Mūḍhā janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life. (break) Mūḍhā janmani janmani. In another place Kṛṣṇa said, bahūni me janmāni tava cārjuna, ātītani tava cārjuna.
Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.
- bahūni me vyatītāni
- janmāni tava cārjuna
- tāny aham veda sarvāṇi
- na tvaṁ vettha parantapa
Rāmeśvara: But there is another way they can understand also. Just like in Christianity, they all believe Jesus was killed and then immediately he was alive again. So in the same way...
Hari-śauri: After three days.
Rāmeśvara: ...Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Resurrection.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. So in the same way Kṛṣṇa also was appearing again during...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa...
Rāmeśvara: Lord Caitanya's līlā is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended. So why you are stopping animal-killing?" The Buddha... Buddha replied, "I don't care for your Vedas." Does it mean that he did not care? Veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. He played like that, that "I am nāstika. I don't believe in your Vedas." But actually he's not. His mission was different. But these rascals will not understand why he is denying the authority of Vedas. So they're atheists. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Lord Buddha appeared to cheat the atheist class of men. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Sura-dviṣam means those who are envious of the believers, sura. They are called sura. And those who do not believe in God, they are called asura. Just to bewilder them that "Here is incarnation..." They do not accept incarnation. They do not accept God. Where is the question of incarnate? "Here is our leader." So they did not believe in God. And Buddha said, "Never mind. There is no God. You haven't got to believe in God. You believe me or not?" "Yes, sir, I believe you." That is cheating. He's God. He's supporting that "Don't believe in God. But believe me." (laughs) This is cheating. He supported them: "Yes, there is no God. But what I say, you believe?" "Yes. What you say, we shall believe." This is cheating. Sanmohāya sura-dviṣam. Mohaya. So God has to deal with so many rascals, fools, in this material world. Sometimes He displays His pastime like that. Therefore who will understand? Only the devotees will understand. So you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. We are devotees of Kṛṣṇa. We know the secret. To keep you perpetually in darkness, He manifested such līlā that He is dead, finish. Just like the idol-breaker. They think, "Now their Kṛṣṇa is finished. We have broken." During Hindu-Muslim riot they do that. They break their mosque, and they break their temple and idol also.