Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?
Akṣayānanda: No. One may come out of a thousand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to remain in degradation, and they will protest again. Therefore to save the degradation, this cātur-varṇyam must be established. That I... The ideal class. People will follow, "Oh, here is the ideal class." So we are trying to make an ideal class of Kṛṣṇa conscious people. And if you treat yourself as degraded, then who will care for you? You should remain an ideal class. People will follow gradually.
Mahāṁsa: If a brāhmaṇa class is created, then automatically the kṣatriyas and vaiśyas and śūdras will be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The ideal, if you be ideal class, gradually they will take your advice, what to do. Then immediately the whole degradation will be finished.
Satsvarūpa: Why will they take advice? Will they actually be attracted to the virtues?
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Just like people come to see me. Similarly, everyone comes.
Akṣayānanda: Everyone is attracted to you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should be such qualified that people will come to consult you, to take your advice, and... That is the way. (break) ...one after another. Just like if you are a qualified lawyer, when one has difficulty, he comes, consults you, what to do. If you are a qualified physician, then people will come to consult you. So you become qualified, ideal; people will come. Otherwise who will care for you? (break) ...principles. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating and chanting. These five things only, if you strictly remain on these principles, see how you are respectable. Immediately you'll be respected. Is it not?
Akṣayānanda: Everyone knows that it should be done.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Everyone knows in their heart that these things are right. Before I came to the movement, when I read the Back to Godhead magazine, they are doing these things, I was not doing them all.
Prabhupāda: No, we are making propaganda in USA. They are attracting attention of the people. Yes. They are saying nice.
Akṣayānanda: Whenever we see those four rules...
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they cannot give up even smoking, ordinary thing. And they become leader.
Mahāṁsa: It is not very difficult to give up. If one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not difficult to give up these four things.
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Very easily, in one second. If you have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). These are sinful activities. Immediately Kṛṣṇa will help you, "All right." Immediately. Kṛṣṇa said. Is He bluffing? If you sincerely take to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, immediately the effect will be you give up all this nonsense. They don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, they don't believe in Kṛṣṇa's word; neither they will surrender; neither they will give up. So where is the reformation? They want to remain in degradation and protesting... This is māyā. This is the called, prakṣepātmika śakti, to keep him in degradation, that "You rascal, you have come to enjoy material happiness. So I will keep you in this degradation and you suffer. I shall kick on your face." This is māyā. So what is the result of this protest against degradation?