Guest (5): Man is simple instrument in the hands of God. That I know. God is doing everything or the man? Then the point comes why the brāhmaṇas of the Jagannātha temple are not allowing foreigners... Śrī Kṛṣṇa says, ātmānu:(?) "I live in (indistinct)." That means this ātmā is Paraṁbrahma Himself. If so, why the brāhmaṇas of Jagannātha temple are not allowing them and...?
Prabhupāda: So why in other temples they are allowed? No. God wants that these rascals may remain in darkness. They cannot understand Vaiṣṇava. Let them remain in darkness. That God wants.
Guest (5): Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, Hari...
Prabhupāda: No. Your answer is this, that "Why God does not...?" God wants that "These so-called brāhmaṇas who eat Jagannātha-prasāda with fish, let them remain in darkness, not to understand who is Vaiṣṇava."
Guest (5): That is true...
Prabhupāda: That is true. Take it, that. That's all. (laughter)
Guest (5): But to understand the God...
Prabhupāda: Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andhā-yoniṣu (BG 16.19). Those who are vaiṣṇava-dveṣi, bhagavad-dveṣi, God keeps them in darkness perpetually.
Guest (5): What is the reason between man and God? That is the point we have to understood.
Prabhupāda: We have to understood... Come to this school and learn it, not in a minute.
Guest (5): Sir, not minute.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are asking all these things? You come, become a student, and learn. It is not so easy subject that standing for one minute, you'll understand everything.
Guest (5): Not standing. If God... If God is not doing everything...
Prabhupāda: God is doing everything. I have already explained. If you want to remain a demon, God will keep you in demonic condition. That's it. He is doing everything. That's a fact. And if you want to be devotee, then God can make you devotee also. Ye yathā mām prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmi (BG 4.11).
Guest (5): That would be good.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So...
Guest (5): That's why I asked of the point which is not clear to me. That's why I asked of the point. I know that God is, God is moving everything...
Prabhupāda: God is doing everything. That's a fact.
Guest (5): Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, "I am moving everything.(?)" If so, if Śrī Kṛṣṇa is in the heart, if not then... If Śrī Kṛṣṇa is entering in every heart—He's God—then Americans are also. If Kṛṣṇa is living in every heart, this ātmā itself, God, Paraṁbrahma, ātmā in māyā, being entangled...
Prabhupāda: The God never says the ātmā is Para-brahman. Why you are talking like that?
Guest (5): No. If the ātmā is not God, then what is there?
Prabhupāda: God is...
Guest (5): Due to the presence of a God... This life force is not God. Due to presence of God this ātmā is living.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Ātmā is there. You have studied Bhagavad-gītā or not? First of all tell me. Do you think ātmā and Paramātmā are the same thing?
Guest (5): Mostly the same thing. Yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. First of all try to understand. That is foolishness. Ātmā and Paramātmā—different.
Guest (5): Advaitavāda, dvaitavāda, viśiṣṭādvaitavāda...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am talking of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't bring this vāda, that vāda. In the Bhagavad-gītā the ātmā and Paramātmā is not the same.
Guest (5): No, then, well... We have to accept dualism. There are two...
Prabhupāda: No. Whatever "ism," we are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā—ātmā and Paramātmā different.
Guest (5): This ātmā is giving forms to Paramātmā.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. In the Bhagavad-gītā that is not stated.
Guest (5): With our intelligence we both cannot understand the thing, what is Parambrahman, but real philosophy is dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, one monism.
Prabhupāda: So dvaitavāda, advaitavāda, there may be. But we are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā what is there? You speak.
Guest (5): Knowledge of our ātmā. Bhagavad-gītā is connected to our ātmā. Excuse me.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly stated that... What is that? Kṣetra-kṣetrajña. Ksetrajña. Just hear. Hear, please. Hear. Hear, please. Yes. Now, Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "So I am also kṣetrajña, and the jīva is also kṣetrajña." So that does not mean... First of all hear. Then say yes or no. He says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "I am also kṣetrajñam, but sarva-kṣetreṣu." If ātmā... I am ātmā; you are ātmā. You know your kṣetra; I know my kṣetra. But I do not know your kṣetra; you do not know my kṣetra. That is Bhagavān. He knows everyone. Ksetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. So Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavān, He is sarva-kṣetreṣu, but you are only your kṣetra. Therefore dvaitavāda, two different kṣetras, kṣetrajñas. One kṣetrajña is all-pervading and one kṣetrajña is localized. Therefore two kṣetrajñas. It is dvaitavāda. Yes. You see Bhagavad-gītā? You have read Bhagavad-gītā?