Dr. Copeland: Why do you think a large number of people followed Gandhi? Why did they like him?
Prabhupāda: Well, large number of people followed Lenin. They are not important. Neither Lenin is important, nor their follower is important. So I don't think Gandhi's followers are as many as Lenin's. So these things are not important.
Dr. Copeland: But don't you look upon him as a religious man? Gandhi, religious man?
Prabhupāda: He was a politician. In the garb of. He consolidated the mass of Indian people, becoming a mahātmā, but he was not a mahātmā.
Dr. Copeland: Why not?
Prabhupāda: No. According to... Just see...
Amogha: Mahātmānas mām...
Prabhupāda: Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). We have to judge from this Bhagavad-gītā. Our test will be Bhagavad-gītā.
Madhudviṣa: Read it.
Amogha:
- mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
- daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
- bhajanty ananya-manaso
- jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam
- (BG 9.13)
"Translation. O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."
Prabhupāda: That—because you are student of history-Mahatma Gandhi's photograph with Gītā. Did he speak anything about Gītā or Kṛṣṇa in the history of his life? Then how he is mahātmā?
Dr. Copeland: People called him that.
Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.