Prabhupāda: That is human life. Your choice, make your choice, which way. Again death or deathlessness. Stop death from you. This is human life. The karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they're trying for death. There will be death. But for the bhaktas, devotees, there is deathlessness. Punar janma jayāya. For conquering over next birth. Rascal civilized man does not know what is next life, how death can be stopped. Nothing else. Big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, they do not understand. The so-called scholars, they do not understand. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). They do not understand. They say, "What is this?" They do not understand. (break)
Bali Mardana: ...people could not enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about the next life.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bali Mardana: When people realize they cannot enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about what is going to happen to them in the next life.
Prabhupāda: No, how does... They do not know what is next life?
Bali Mardana: They don't know.
Prabhupāda: They make it zero. Therefore, closing the eye. "There is no next life. Finished. There is no next life." In that way they're satisfied. Just like the rabbit. There is danger, enemy, he closes his eyes. He thinks there is no danger. (devotees laugh) So these rascals are like that. Because they cannot accommodate that this life is so troublesome, again, next life... So that they can realize. Next life means again troublesome; that's why they sometimes commit suicide. They think that after suicide it will be zero, so no trouble. These are all ignorance.
Karandhara: In psychology that's called repression.
Prabhupāda: Repression.
Karandhara: Taking something which is a fact, but refusing to believe it, pushing it out of your mind, repressing it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: There is a philosophy called Stoicism. They believe they... This life is meant to suffer, so they should just become very sturdy to suffer a great deal.
Prabhupāda: So sturdy or not sturdy, you have to suffer. How you can check? We cannot change by simply... Becoming sturdy...
Bali Mardana: No, stoic.
Prabhupāda: Ah. What is that?
Bali Mardana: It's a philosophy, a school of philosophy, stoic.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. What is their conclusion?
Bali Mardana: That the world is very, is full of suffering...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: ...so they become very sturdy to bear the suffering.
Yaśodānandana: Emotionless.
Prabhupāda: So one who can suffer without any protest, he's first-class man.
Bali Mardana: (laughs) Yeah.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not know how to stop suffering.
Bali Mardana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: The... Here is one class, they're trying to become very strong to tolerate suffering, and other philosophies, they're making everything zero. There is no question of not suffering, but making zero. No suffering, nor neither suffering. Suffering or not..., both of them abolished, dismissed. This philosopher is... "This suffering cannot be dismissed. Therefore you be strong to tolerate it." Other philosophers they say, "There is suffering, so make it zero." But both of them have no information that there is real life where there is no suffering. Still there is life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is life, but no suffering.
Bali Mardana: They're like owls.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause)
Bali Mardana: There's a river. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...duḥkha-nivṛtti. Ultimately, stop of all sufferings. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Simply ānanda. Dancing with Kṛṣṇa, rāsa dance. Supposing if there is such life—dancing and eating and chanting, no suffering. So would anybody deny that? Is there any such fool?
Bali Mardana: Yeah, they're all denying.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Bali Mardana: They deny. Just like the Puritans...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Deny... You deny or accept, that is the... Suppose there is such life where you can simply dance, eat and live eternally, happy life. Would you not like to accept it?
Devotee (2): Yes, of course, anyone would.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Devotee (2): Anyone would like to accept that.
Prabhupāda: You see? That we are giving.
Devotee (2): But they think no such thing would exist.
Prabhupāda: They think, may think, but it is theoretical. Supposing there is such life, would you not accept it? You may believe, not believe. That is another chapter. First of all, this is our proposition, that there is a life like this. Would you like? So who would say "no"? Everyone will say, "Yes, I like." It is a question of understanding. There is such life, but because he is disappointed at being cheated, cheated, cheated, he thinks, "Here is also another cheating." Just see. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness preaching means to convince them that there is life like this. That is propaganda.
Bali Mardana: What would convince them that it is simply not another cheating?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cheating, it is fact.
Bali Mardana: But what would convince them of that? What qualities?
Prabhupāda: Just see example, our. We are chanting, dancing, and eating nicely. What you are doing? You are simply talking nonsense. There is no peace in your life. And see our devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the proof, practical proof.
Yaśodānandana: Practical proof that they cannot get purified.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Yaśodānandana: Even though they have big posts...
Prabhupāda: No, either purify or... You come with us and you will be purified. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā cāi. We don't want anything from you. You, I shall give you eating. I shall give you everything. You simply come with me and chant. This is our propaganda. We don't say that "You do this, do that." We don't do anything. Simply come with us and chant.
Bali Mardana: Just like the Catholic church, in different places around the world they feed the people.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Bali Mardana: But we cannot only... If we not only feed them, but give them chanting and dancing...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: ...they will accept it as superior.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Actually we can see that happening very practically. At Spiritual Sky many big, big businessmen they come, and they see how these boys are making money and yet they are singing and dancing all the time. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: This is practical. It's practical. Therefore in India we are considered as the richest community. They was a question in Parliament, "Wherefrom these Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they get their money?" And the Parliament would reply, Home Member, that "They get money by distributing literature." This is the reply. This is recorded in the Parliament, Indian Parliament.
Hṛdayānanda: Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So if you simply push on our literature, then our movement is going, you must know. It is really going forward. And there will be no scarcity. You'll get everything. (break) Our neighbors they inquire, is it not? That, "You are living so happily, where do you get money?"
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The storekeepers, they inquire. They're envious, that "How these people enjoying life without earning, without working hard?" Now whole Bombay is surprised when you purchased this land.
Bali Mardana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So much fighting was there. Immediately I went and purchase and everything stopped. (devotees laugh) They are surprised. This man, they... You know there are two very stubborn parties who have cheated. Chaganlal, he advanced fifty-one thousand as advance, and when there was question of settlement, so he came, he wanted that "If you give me three lakhs, then I'll compromise." So I was prepared to pay him three lakhs. So that Mr. Ganotra, Mayor, I induced him just to make settlement. Then down he came-two lakhs twenty-five thousand. Then asked Mrs. Nair, "Now you'll pay this..." Where I have got... If he takes all money, then what shall I get? Then I had to settle with her how much he will pay. So she came from one lakh to one lakh, forty thousand. So what is the balance?
Bali Mardana: Sixty. Sixty... Eighty-five thousand.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Eighty-five. So I said, "Yes, I'll pay it. Settle up. The balance I'll pay." Eighty-five thousand. The other man, what is called? Ratna Parik?
Karandhara: Chaganlal.
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys. They cancelled the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us. That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Bali Mardana: Saves 500,000, lakhs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The attorneys were settling at seventeen lakhs, but by Kṛṣṇa's grace I was able to settle up fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Bali Mardana: You were able to convince her to settle up for less.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gurukṛpā: This was white?
Prabhupāda: Ah? Yes, fourteen lakhs fifty thousand white.
Bali Mardana: She must've been very surprised to receive the money, such a large payment.
Prabhupāda;: Yes. (break) ...only ten lakhs.
Bali Mardana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Then Karandhara sent... How much you sent?
Karandhara: Excuse me, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What you sent?
Karandhara: Sent twenty thousand.
Prabhupāda: Twenty thousand. That was... Not two lakhs, nowadays. Eight rupees. About one lakh sixty thousand. Then we had about three lakhs. In this way, somehow or other, we paid seven, more than sixteen lakhs. Black, white, everything.
Gurukṛpā: For Kṛṣṇa anything can be done.
Prabhupāda: She was to be paid fourteen lakhs fifty thousand, then stamp duty two lakhs... Sixty thousand or six thousand? Then registration fee... Oh, it was very expensive. (break)