Journalist (1): Yes. I know you define that as civilization. It's just, I was trying to suggest that some societies, and indeed, some individual personalities, are avaricious seemingly by nature. How do you... Well, graft and greed and...
Revatīnandana: Sometimes, that is their natural position.
Prabhupāda: It is a disease. Disease. Lust and greediness. There are three qualities in the world, material world. One is called sattva-guṇa, one is called rajo-guṇa, another is called tamo-guṇa. Goodness. Rajo-guṇa is passion, and tamo-guṇa is darkness. So at the present moment these two guṇas, qualities, darkness and passion are prevalent. Goodness gone. Goodness gone. And the darkness and passion, the symptoms are greediness and lust. People are being educated to become greedy and lusty. That's all. Nobody is being educated to become good. So what is the use of these rascal universities? If they are producing greedy and lusty people, then what is the use of education? Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means everyone should be gentleman. That is education. And if you produce lusty and greedy people there is no... This is animal education. The animals are lusty and greedy. (break)
Journalist (1): What is your view of predominant Western civilization, Sir?
Prabhupāda: This predominance is dwindling. Where is your British Empire gone?
Journalist (1): Yes, quite. In fact, I was asking you about...
Prabhupāda: So this is artificial. There was Roman Empire, there was Mogul Empire, there was Carthagian Empire, there was Egyptian Empire and Greece and so on. They come and go. And there is a song by a Vaiṣṇava, kata caturānana, māri māri yāvatā.(?) There are so many Brahmās come also and they died. So this kind of empirical imperial, onslaught, they will come and stay for hundred or two hundred, and create some problems. There were...Just like there was Napoleon, there was this and that. So they will come and go. They will come and go, create some disturbances and go. Nobody will stay.
Journalist (1): Yes, but they don't seem to be improving society. When they do come and go, society doesn't seem to improve on the way.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot... if you remain demon then there is no question of improvement. You must be prepared to become... There are two classes of men. One is called god, or demigod; another is called demon. If you continue your demonic civilization, there is no question of happiness. That Hitler will come and this will come, that will... They will fight for some time, create some disturbance and go away. Another Hitler will come, another will come, another will come. This way.
Journalist (1): There will always be unhappiness amongst...
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is you cannot be happy and prosperous in this demonic civilization.
Journalist (1): What about the Western religions like Christianity? That's been with us now for two thousand years and doesn't seem to have helped people to become particularly...
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand what is religion. Then you come to different types of religion. Religion means to understand God. Do you agree to that or not?
Journalist (1): So if Christian religion is teaching to understand God and to become obedient to God, then it is all right. If it is not teaching that then it is useless. Simply by stamping, "I am Christian," what do you gain by that?
Journalist (1): Well nothing, but that...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. Simply by stamping, "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." What is the gain?
Journalist (1): I've never been able to understand what the gain was either.
Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on. Nobody is Christian. Nobody is Hindu. Nobody is Muslim. Everyone is demon. Everyone is demon. That is our proposal. There is no Christian, there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim. That is our proposal.
Journalist (1): Except people who have accepted the Kṛṣṇa consciousness presumably. That...
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. First of all, you were talking about the Christian religion. I say that Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, there may be different religions, but what is the aim of religion? That you should understand. The aim of religion is to know God. If you profess some religion, but if I ask you what is God, if you cannot explain, then what is the use of your becoming religious?
Journalist (1): Probably none. But people like to have, or seem to like to have a religion.
Prabhupāda: They don't like. They don't like God. They don't like God. As soon as somebody speaks of God, "They say they are crazy." So actually there is no Christian, no Hindu, no Muslim. All demons. That's all.
Journalist (1): How do you stop that?
Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.